.380 Auto cases into .357 bullets.

kawalekm · 02-22-2009, 01:37 PM

My latest project for making cheap .357 jackets. A while back I mentioned making a die to draw .380 Auto cases down to .357" to use as jackets. I gave up on that idea and used my Lyman lubesizer instead, pressing .380 auto cases into my .365 sizing die. I annealed them red hot first, ran them through the die and reduced them to .356-.357 in one pass. The cases weigh about 50 grains each, so I made 110 grain cast cores out of radioisotope shield lead. Actual cast cores came out of the mold at about 112-113 grains. After seating the cores, the extruded lead reduced the overall weight to about 158 grains. I finished up with a soft point this time. Lastly, I put on a cannelure, and it's ready to shoot. Final diameter mikes out to .3572" with a final weight of 157.9 grains. Cool!

zxcvbob · 02-22-2009, 02:09 PM

That's pretty cool. Any chance of using 9mm Luger brass? (they're probably too big, but maybe two passes?) 9mm brass is plentiful, .380, not so much.

BT Sniper · 02-22-2009, 09:01 PM

Michael,

This has got to stop. Now I have to get some 380 auto brass. Haven't seen a post from you in a while, glad to see you were putting your time to good use. What dies did you use this time, the CH? Now I got to buy some.

Awsome work. Can we see a close up side by side of your final bullet and the factory. Like your .429 pics.

You are becoming quite the pioneer and motivator to all of us to spend more money buying new dies and tracking down used brass. CH should be giving you kick backs.

What's the next project?

Good shooting,

Brian

BT Sniper · 02-22-2009, 11:43 PM

How do you come about radioisotope shield lead? Hope it is cheap. Is it powder? I bought some powdered lead as an idea to even out bullet weights. Cost me $5 per pound plus alot of shipping. Not some thing I am going to melt for cores of course. Judging from that container looks to be about a pound. With 110 grain cores going to only get about 63 cores per pound right?

Keep it up Michael.

kawalekm · 02-23-2009, 07:27 AM

I chose the .380 Auto because I get all the brass I want for free at the range. It's all the stuff I pick up while harvesting 9mm's that goes in my odds & ends bucket! I think that the .380 is a joke cartridge and wouldn't ever think of reloading it, so bullet swaging is the best application I can think of for .380 brass.

I made these bullets again with CH dies and the soft point punch. This is the closest my camera can shoot, so closer-up is not an option. These bullets came out so nice that I've started looking into getting a .35 Whelen rifle. See what this addiction has done to me! Using 9mm brass though is my next project. I don't want to use it for making .357 bullets though, because it would be natural to make them into .40 caliber bullets. Nobody ever thought of creating the .327 Auto Mag, which would have been perfect! Oh well.

I feel so sorry for all the guys who advertise how cheaply they bought their lead. In casting for 20 some odd years now I have never yet had to pay anything for lead. Everything I've ever gotten was free. I was an acquaintance of the radiation safety officer at the university I attended, and I got hundreds of pounds of these containers for free, with them all now sitting under my bench waiting to be reborn.

Michael

Old Ironsights · 02-23-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BT Sniper

How do you come about radioisotope shield lead? Hope it is cheap. Is it powder?

THe whole canister you see in the pic is the lead (it's pure). It is essentially a lead "bottle" for transporting radioactive isotopes.

Cath Labs etc have them and sometimes will let folks "recycle them" for them.

Neat Idea. I've been wondering what would work for .357 swaging.

Old Ironsights · 02-23-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawalekm

I... Using 9mm brass though is my next project. I don't want to use it for making .357 bullets though, because it would be natural to make them into .40 caliber bullets....

??? why would 9mm be better for .40 than .380? they have the same OD...

I would think 9mm would be PERFECT for 180gr SJHP hunting loads...

kawalekm · 02-23-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Ironsights

??? why would 9mm be better for .40 than .380? they have the same OD...

I would think 9mm would be PERFECT for 180gr SJHP hunting loads...

The rim diameter of the .380 Auto is 0.374" and the body is 0.373" (more or less). The rim diameter of the 9mm is 0.394" with a body of 0.391". In general, I think it is easier to swage up slightly rather than draw down. I only had to reduce the .380 cases 17 thousandths, while the 9mm case would be 37. I'll try a 9mm case when I get home, but I assumed that much drawdown would be very hard on my Lyman sizer.

By the way, I tossed one of these jackets with a 145 grain core into my Swagomatic, and made a 185 grain .357 hollowpoint with it. But it looks like I could stick in that same core in the same case for the CH dies and still have the jacket curve over the ogive. I didn't try it yet because I didn't what to change the settings on the dies.

Old Ironsights · 02-23-2009, 12:33 PM

Huhhh.. I fugured since .380 was/is 9mm Kurtz that it hat the same, but shorter, case dims.

Thanks for the clarification.

kawalekm · 02-24-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Ironsights

??? why would 9mm be better for .40 than .380? they have the same OD...

I would think 9mm would be PERFECT for 180gr SJHP hunting loads...

HI OIS
I annealed a 9mm case last night and tried to run it through the .356" sizing die. It didn't work. I was able to start the case mouth into the die, but by the time the casehead started to enter the die body it seized up and wouldn't go any further. I could tell that I was stressing the press handle and any more force would break it!

I'm going to stick with .380 Auto jackets for now, because they work. I'll have to work out a different procedure to draw down 9mm brass.
Michael

BT Sniper · 02-24-2009, 05:19 PM

Michael,

Did you get a new core mold or make your own? Could you provide us with some details if you made it. How much do those lead bottels weight?

Thanks

kawalekm · 02-25-2009, 07:26 AM

Back around 1993 or so I bought my entire casting outfit used from a guy's ad in a local pennysaver. I got a Lyman furnace, lubesizer, bullet molds, and a few accesories for 80$. Included with the accesories was a core mold, core cutters, and a few die inserts for a swagomatic. The core mold is the "Ideal" brand, has four chambers .314" in diameter, and core weight is adjusted with four screws on the bottum that raises and lowers a piston in each cylinder. By measuring previously cast cores, I was able to calculate that a core measuring 0.525" in length would weight 110 grains. Once I had the mold up to temp and was dropping cores, I found I was almost exactly on, at 112 grains. Since I wanted the cores to be slightly over-weight so core seating could bring them to the target weight, I left the mold as is. By the way, since a 9mm case weighs about 60 grains, this same core would make a nice 165 grain hollowpoint for the .40S&W (hint, hint).

The lead storage containers weigh about a pound and a quarter each. I have about a cubic foot of them. You might want to check out your local flea market or swap meet some time. People sell also sorts of stuff there. I've see lots of pewter, which I buy for casting Lyman's alloy #2, lead bricks, and even Wood's metal that melts at 158F. Over the years I've gotten very good at scrounging just about everything I need for free, or for next to nothing.
Michael

AmBraCol · 02-25-2009, 04:25 PM

Here's a blown up view of the finished bullet next to the factory one. Looks like fun.

Willbird · 02-25-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxcvbob

That's pretty cool. Any chance of using 9mm Luger brass? (they're probably too big, but maybe two passes?) 9mm brass is plentiful, .380, not so much.

Actually I have been sorting some brass, and sorting OUT about 10% BERDAN primed 9x19. Completely useless for the most part as cartridges. Also quite a few berdan 223, same head size as the 9mm.

Bill

BT Sniper · 02-25-2009, 08:49 PM

Michael,

How about three .357 jackets from one .223 case?

kawalekm · 02-26-2009, 06:48 AM

One thing at a time please! My wife is already shaking her head.

Old Ironsights · 02-26-2009, 07:00 AM

I think it would be hilarious to do - especially for carry ammo.

Can you imagine what the MSM/CSI would do with a recovered bullet that actually looked like a cartoon bullet (i.e. flying cartridge, rim & all...)???

It would blow their fuzzy little minds.

miestro_jerry · 03-12-2009, 08:10 PM

What are the die model numbers to do this with?

Thanks,

Jerry

02-22-2009, 01:37 PM	#1
kawalekm Boolit Master Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 280	.380 Auto cases into .357 bullets. My latest project for making cheap .357 jackets. A while back I mentioned making a die to draw .380 Auto cases down to .357" to use as jackets. I gave up on that idea and used my Lyman lubesizer instead, pressing .380 auto cases into my .365 sizing die. I annealed them red hot first, ran them through the die and reduced them to .356-.357 in one pass. The cases weigh about 50 grains each, so I made 110 grain cast cores out of radioisotope shield lead. Actual cast cores came out of the mold at about 112-113 grains. After seating the cores, the extruded lead reduced the overall weight to about 158 grains. I finished up with a soft point this time. Lastly, I put on a cannelure, and it's ready to shoot. Final diameter mikes out to .3572" with a final weight of 157.9 grains. Cool!

02-22-2009, 09:01 PM	#3
BT Sniper Vendor Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon next to the river Posts: 977	Michael, This has got to stop. Now I have to get some 380 auto brass. Haven't seen a post from you in a while, glad to see you were putting your time to good use. What dies did you use this time, the CH? Now I got to buy some. Awsome work. Can we see a close up side by side of your final bullet and the factory. Like your .429 pics. You are becoming quite the pioneer and motivator to all of us to spend more money buying new dies and tracking down used brass. CH should be giving you kick backs. What's the next project? Good shooting, Brian __________________ When you stop learning you are dying.

02-22-2009, 11:43 PM	#4
BT Sniper Vendor Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon next to the river Posts: 977	How do you come about radioisotope shield lead? Hope it is cheap. Is it powder? I bought some powdered lead as an idea to even out bullet weights. Cost me $5 per pound plus alot of shipping. Not some thing I am going to melt for cores of course. Judging from that container looks to be about a pound. With 110 grain cores going to only get about 63 cores per pound right? Keep it up Michael. __________________ When you stop learning you are dying.

02-23-2009, 12:33 PM	#9
Old Ironsights Boolit Master Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Escaped from Chicago, now in WY Posts: 3,929	Huhhh.. I fugured since .380 was/is 9mm Kurtz that it hat the same, but shorter, case dims. Thanks for the clarification. __________________ *The Constitution isn't perfect, but it's better than the system we're using now.* There is only Anti Gun and Pro RKBA - regardless of "party". Party Ideology be damned. The only thing more damaging to RKBA than a rabid Anti is a backstabbing Fudd. Dear Govt: I'm not Jesus. Stop Punishing me for other people's sins! GOT GUN? Get T-Shirt!! Stand up & fight Prohibition!

02-24-2009, 05:19 PM	#11
BT Sniper Vendor Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon next to the river Posts: 977	Michael, Did you get a new core mold or make your own? Could you provide us with some details if you made it. How much do those lead bottels weight? Thanks __________________ When you stop learning you are dying.

02-22-2009, 02:09 PM	#2
zxcvbob Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 326	That's pretty cool. Any chance of using 9mm Luger brass? (they're probably too big, but maybe two passes?) 9mm brass is plentiful, .380, not so much.

02-23-2009, 07:27 AM	#5
kawalekm Boolit Master Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 280	I chose the .380 Auto because I get all the brass I want for free at the range. It's all the stuff I pick up while harvesting 9mm's that goes in my odds & ends bucket! I think that the .380 is a joke cartridge and wouldn't ever think of reloading it, so bullet swaging is the best application I can think of for .380 brass. I made these bullets again with CH dies and the soft point punch. This is the closest my camera can shoot, so closer-up is not an option. These bullets came out so nice that I've started looking into getting a .35 Whelen rifle. See what this addiction has done to me! Using 9mm brass though is my next project. I don't want to use it for making .357 bullets though, because it would be natural to make them into .40 caliber bullets. Nobody ever thought of creating the .327 Auto Mag, which would have been perfect! Oh well. I feel so sorry for all the guys who advertise how cheaply they bought their lead. In casting for 20 some odd years now I have never yet had to pay anything for lead. Everything I've ever gotten was free. I was an acquaintance of the radiation safety officer at the university I attended, and I got hundreds of pounds of these containers for free, with them all now sitting under my bench waiting to be reborn. Michael

02-25-2009, 07:26 AM	#12
kawalekm Boolit Master Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 280	Back around 1993 or so I bought my entire casting outfit used from a guy's ad in a local pennysaver. I got a Lyman furnace, lubesizer, bullet molds, and a few accesories for 80$. Included with the accesories was a core mold, core cutters, and a few die inserts for a swagomatic. The core mold is the "Ideal" brand, has four chambers .314" in diameter, and core weight is adjusted with four screws on the bottum that raises and lowers a piston in each cylinder. By measuring previously cast cores, I was able to calculate that a core measuring 0.525" in length would weight 110 grains. Once I had the mold up to temp and was dropping cores, I found I was almost exactly on, at 112 grains. Since I wanted the cores to be slightly over-weight so core seating could bring them to the target weight, I left the mold as is. By the way, since a 9mm case weighs about 60 grains, this same core would make a nice 165 grain hollowpoint for the .40S&W (hint, hint). The lead storage containers weigh about a pound and a quarter each. I have about a cubic foot of them. You might want to check out your local flea market or swap meet some time. People sell also sorts of stuff there. I've see lots of pewter, which I buy for casting Lyman's alloy #2, lead bricks, and even Wood's metal that melts at 158F. Over the years I've gotten very good at scrounging just about everything I need for free, or for next to nothing. Michael

02-25-2009, 04:25 PM	#13
AmBraCol Boolit Mold Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: In The Center Of God's Grace Posts: 6	Here's a blown up view of the finished bullet next to the factory one. Looks like fun. Attached Thumbnails

02-25-2009, 08:49 PM	#15
BT Sniper Vendor Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon next to the river Posts: 977	Michael, How about three .357 jackets from one .223 case? __________________ When you stop learning you are dying.

02-26-2009, 06:48 AM	#16
kawalekm Boolit Master Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 280	One thing at a time please! My wife is already shaking her head.

02-26-2009, 07:00 AM	#17
Old Ironsights Boolit Master Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Escaped from Chicago, now in WY Posts: 3,929	I think it would be hilarious to do - especially for carry ammo. Can you imagine what the MSM/CSI would do with a recovered bullet that actually looked like a cartoon bullet (i.e. flying cartridge, rim & all...)??? It would blow their fuzzy little minds. __________________ *The Constitution isn't perfect, but it's better than the system we're using now.* There is only Anti Gun and Pro RKBA - regardless of "party". Party Ideology be damned. The only thing more damaging to RKBA than a rabid Anti is a backstabbing Fudd. Dear Govt: I'm not Jesus. Stop Punishing me for other people's sins! GOT GUN? Get T-Shirt!! Stand up & fight Prohibition!

03-12-2009, 08:10 PM	#18
miestro_jerry Boolit Master Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Somerton, Ohio Posts: 413	What are the die model numbers to do this with? Thanks, Jerry __________________ A Closed Mouth Gathers No Foot NRA Benefactor Member BFE, Ohio, USA I carry a Big SIG