Expansion Test with Pics

[Ben]

Recently I got a Lyman 35891 mold that was HP'd
by Erik.

See link:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=42764

Today I decided to test some of the bullets to see how they would expand in a 5 gallon bucket of wet sand ( I realize that this medium has been criticized already by some here on the forum) lacking any other medium to stop the bullets today, this seemed to be a logical choice.I realize that this test is very un-scientific. I'm certain that if this was done in a ballistics lab that many things would be changed, but since I lack a ballistics lab, I was simply curious as to what would happen with the " wet sand test" ? ?

The " wound cavity " in the wet sand was LARGE !
I also tested the rounds for penetration. One of the rounds loaded with 2.7 B'eye easily penetrated a 3/4 " oak board and almost penetrated a 2nd .

I'm looking for a good self defense round to be fired from a 2 " , 5 shot , J-Frame, 38 Spec. snub that would have good stopping power but not display excessive muzzle blast and excessive recoil. My wife will carry the 2" snub hence the need for her to be able to get back on target with a quick follow up shot if needed.

In the expansion test today, I fired one of the 112 gr. HP's ( Air Cooled WW's ) with 2.7 B'eye, I then repeated the test with the same bullet fired with 3.2 grs. B'eye.

All test rounds were fired from a S & W Model
19, with a 4" barrel with bullets loaded in
38 Spec. brass.

Photos below:

[docone31]

I usually load commercial swaged wadcutters upside down.
I get the same results.
Looks good to me.

[Ben]

I'm a " believer " ! !

[45&30-30]

Very nice, thanks for sharing the pic's, what alloy did you use? Water dropped or air cooled?

[Ben]

A/C W/W's

[Catshooter]

How do they perform out of your wife's pistol?


Cat

[Blammer]

do they fly straight at 25 yds?

just curious.

[Ben]

Catshooter :

Don't know that yet ? She was gone today in her vehicle with her snub so I couldn't use it in today's test.

More testing tomorrow with the same loads in her snub to see if there will be similarities in the test results to today's test with the 4" Model 19 ? ? ?

I also want to shoot some 5 shot groups at 7 yards with her snub to see what kind of accuracy can be expected with this load ( 3.2 B'Eye with the hollow cav. W/C )

[Ben]

Blammer:

I'm not expecting much from this load in the way of accuracy at 25 yards. Then again,....... it is doubtful that she will need to be firing her 2" snub at 25 yards, more likely 1 - 7 yards for her.

Ben

[Larry Gibson]

Ben

May I suggest an alloy of 50/50 WW/lead? It is a lot more maleable than straight WWs and has better expansion charactoristics.

Larry Gibson

[Ben]

Yes Larry, after looking closely at the photo of the 3.2 B'eye bullet mushroom, you can clearly see that instead of the lead flowing in the mushroom pattern, it cracked.

Yes, a 50 / 50 mix should be just about right.

Ben

[Tristan]

I think the 50/50 lead/WW mix is a good idea, and if it were my mold, I'd have a second HP pin made up that was about 1/2 the size (in volume) as the one that came with it... just to see which performed best. A smaller HP cavity might give just as good expansion depending on the mix, and certainly more mass for deeper penetration. Just an idea...

Thanks for the information, Ben. Looks like you have a very interesting project going.

[JeffinNZ]

A backwards Minie ball. Ouch.

Re the alloy; my stick on WW's are 7.2 BHN which should be plenty hard enough also.

[Blammer]

gotcha!

was thinking good rabbit load

[grumpy one]

Using straight stick-on WWs gives you quite a lot of tin, which improves ductility.

[copdills]

I'm a " believer " ! !

ME TOO

[Bret4207]

I would be interested in trying it with the HP filled with beeswax or another substance like that. It's been said to help them open, hydraulic pressure I think.

Of course a plain old WC would be a killer no matter what, so maybe it's a moot point.

[cajun shooter]

This round and the loading of it backwards has been with us since the 70's. It was issued to the Marshall's for carrying on planes during the heyday of high jackings. It would not go through the target and the side of the plane and lead to decompression. I loaded some with the recomended powder AL-7 at the time, even carried a few on my time as a Deputy. Ben, in the 70's when we wanted to test expansion we did the same test in the same media until we were given a better product. The media was called DUXseal and could be bought in large blocks. It was used in the HVAC trade on sealing duct work. Lee Juras used it to test some of his first hot bullets. Someone with alot more training in that field than I stated that it was close to human body makeup. It was a dark color and to me looked and felt like a semi soft clay.

[Calamity Jake]

[QUOTE=Bret4207;464599]I would be interested in trying it with the HP filled with beeswax or another substance like that. It's been said to help them open, hydraulic pressure I think.

Try pushing a small pistol primer into that hollow cavity, then shoot some concrete blocks with it.

[montana_charlie]

Try pushing a small pistol primer into that hollow cavity, then shoot some concrete blocks with it.

Now, there is a scientifically engineered experiment into the relationship between an unregulated explosive and a shrapnel-creating object...being carried out in an uncontrolled environment.

As an exercise in hazard creation, it ranks right up there with sticking Sarah Cranston's braids in a bottle of ink...and other eleven year-old pranks.
CM