2 cycle synthetic and beeswax

[Bullshop Junior]

I don't shoot it beyond 2,000 fps and then with powders like IMR 4895 that is probably not breaking 30,000 psi.

Some on the forum here say they have shot 2,400 fps with zero problems, however I've never tried it ? ?

Of course many use it in revolver and auto pistol loads with good reviews.

Ben

I would have to test it, and see but I like to push my boolits to the full potential of the rifle. If I can't I will shoot jacketed. But for most of the guns I have owned, I was able to shoot full power cast loads with speed green, 22/250 and a few like that being the exception.

[Ben]

Ben's Red may not be for you...........

It wasn't designed to be a cast bullet lube to operate under the conditions you describe. Whether it can or not still remains to be seen ?

I know it to be a great cast bullet lube for a lot of people like me who like to shoot 1,500 fps - 2,000 fps in rifles and also use the same lube in revolvers and auto pistols.

It has already been mentioned that no lube will be all things, to all people , under all conditions, at all times and that certainly goes for Ben's Red also.

Ben

[35 shooter]

Ben's Red makes the full trip out the bore at 2500 fps + in my whelen with cast. Absolutely no leading whatsoever. I've seen several others post the same results. I think when the temp gets over 95* with a 110 heat index i saw a slight increase in group size.Maybe 5% more beeswax added as others have tried would take it on up in temp range? As far as that goes it may have been the heat affecting me more. In fact i'd say that was more likely. Hard to shoot with sweat in your eyes. Even in the heat one patch pretty well cleaned the bore....no dry or rough spots. I think it would go as fast as i can shoot in the whelen, i just run out of accurracy around 2500 fps. I've heard good reports on speed green for speed too but i haven't tried it. As far as 2 cycle oil and beeswax goes, with a couple more simple ingredients you've got simple lube. I use it and Ben's Red and love both. Both of them will handle speed, cold and heat. So far i haven't had to modify simple lube at all for cold or heat. Of course it does'nt get hot here like AZ. or TX., but it does get hot with horrible humidity.

[Bullshop Junior]

That is one advantage I am seeing with the powder coating...it wont melt.

[35 shooter]

That is one advantage I am seeing with the powder coating...it wont melt.

Waco has a test going on with that very thing. Be glad when he gets a chance to do some more shooting!

[igolfat8]

Biggest advantage to the synthetics is the fact they tend to be me chemically pure and very consistent year in and year out. Naturally occurring oils, like mineral oil, tend to vary from time to time or over time.

True statement. Decades ago I had published my test results in an AMA newspaper. I had other riders sending me samples of oil to test for them. A couple sent me oils that I had already tested locally but they were from the other side of the US and I noticed a considerable discrepancy in the test results. A Castrol lube engineer called me, from England and he verified what btroj said above. He stated that mineral oil quality will very depending on what field they came from. He has said some of the highest quality [mineral oil] base stocks came from oil fields in PA.

[montana_charlie]

Thanks charlie. Thats what I was looking for. Thanks.

When you want to search Cast Boolits for something use this customized search engine.
https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=0...69:ggn3vg-bjum

However, it won't find things that are in The Pit because access to that area is not available to the general public.

CM

[geargnasher]

Ben, most "lithi-bee" lubes tend to fall on their faces in extreme heat. Groups will open up, particularly in rapid-fire scenarios, as the Lithium soap matrix begins to break down and can no longer control the oil release all the way to the muzzle.

Sodium stearate tends to hold the oil a bit better in the heat and extreme pressure, but when the drop point IS reached, it fails in a different way. Sodium stearate molecules are something on the order of 100 times larger than Lithium stearate molecules, and when the sodium soap burns, it leaves a cakey residue in the bore similar to the calcium stearates in
Alox, only worse. Burned lithium purges just like powder residue and is much less dramatic when pushed past it's drop point.

I have pretty much given up on traditional metal soaps as thickening/oil control agents for boolit lube. They work fine up to a point, but above a certain amount of heat and pressure, they just can't hold up. One reason Speed Green works well under high heat and pressure is the clean burn. The wax and two-cycle oil cook off fairly cleanly, leaving little residue in the bore to muck up the next shot. The problem with it, for me, is that in the heat groups open up unless more wax is added. It also has a fairly low melt point and won't tolerate being exposed to direct sun in the Texas heat for long. Adding a bit of sodium soap to it, like Edd is doing right now, may fix this and we might end up with the "perfect" lube. I have something else up my sleeve right now to help control the "runaway slickey" problem it has with too much heat. We'll see.

Gear

[igolfat8]

Gear,
I am a noobie and have not been around here long enough to know what you shoot. If you only shot .45 ACP in 1911s what lube would you use? FWIW, I have yet to cast my first boolit and only doing research as to what equipment to purchase to set up my shop. I will probably venture down the Lee road and take the less expensive route to enter in at a lower price point.

[btroj]

I'm not Gear but I bet I know what he will say.....

A mix of equal part Dr Tranny Assemblee Goo, the green one, paraffin, and Ivory soap, by weight. To each 4 ounces you can add a teaspoonful of synthetic 2 stroke oil.

This stuff needs LOTS of heat to mix properly. I am talking 450 degrees or so. It isn't going to melt in any reasonable temps and works great in handguns.

There are others but this one works great for handgun use.

[Bullshop Junior]

I would se the same lube I se in everything else...Speedgreen.

[igolfat8]

Is the Speed Green and or Tranny Lubes meant to be applied with a lubrisizer, pan or tumble tube? I don't have a lubrisizer and will likely purchase a Lee sizer and start with tumble or pan lube method.

[Bullshop Junior]

Speed green can be used with panlube, although lotak may be better, witch if I remember correctly is speed green with 1 part carnaba wax added.

[btroj]

The lube I mentioned is called SL-61 and I used it in a sizer. I have never pan lubed so I can't really say. I doubt it would be a good pan lube largely due to the extremely high melt point.

For a 45 ACP a tumble in 45-45-10 is the way to go if not using a lubesizer.

[igolfat8]

The lube I mentioned is called SL-61 and I used it in a sizer. I have never pan lubed so I can't really say. I doubt it would be a good pan lube largely due to the extremely high melt point.

For a 45 ACP a tumble in 45-45-10 is the way to go if not using a lubesizer.

What if one had a lubrisizer? I primarily shoot Bullseye and Bowling pins. I don't have any equipement for casting ... yet ... so I am open to suggestions. FWIW I shoot about 300 rounds / week.

[btroj]

If you have a sizer you could do worse than Felix lube or Bens red in most cases. Both are easy to make and have a good reputation.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Speed green can be used with panlube, although lotak may be better, witch if I remember correctly is speed green with 1 part carnaba wax added.

I do like Lotak, according to your old man, there is no Beeswax in Lotak.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post1876001

I do like randyrat's Tak #1 which is similar to a doctored speed green. I believe the ingredient in Lotak that replaces beeswax is what is mostly responsible for it's higher speed capabilites.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ighlight=Lotak

[igolfat8]

Having never used either method, is it safe to assume the lubrisizer method is faster than TL? If I wanted to get a Lubrisizer one step up in cost over the Lee sizer TL method, what machine do you suggest?

[btroj]

Speed is relative. A Star is then faster to use but takes some time to learn to get pressure and heat just right. Tumble lube is quick and easy and only requires a push thru sizer to use on your loading press.

For large numbers of handgun bullets a Star is darn hard to beat.

[dsbock]

What is the general consensus of the lube recipe from Glen Fryxell's book From Ingot to Target?

"Personally, my favorite is my homemade Moly lube, made from equal parts by weight of beeswax (either yellow or white, color doesn't matter) mixed with Sta-Lube Extreme Pressure Moly-Graph Multi-Purpose Grease. This grease, like Alox 2138F, is also a lithium-based grease, so this lube is basically just a variant of the old NRA formula for Alox lube, with a little molybdenum disulfide and graphite thrown in."

It seems simple enough.

David