44 mag finicky?

[jblee10]

How many of you load the 44 mag and 45LC? Thoughts?? I still think the 45LC is the killing machine. but think the 44 mag is easier to load. Does the 44 Mag shoot light loads better? Seems like the 45LC likes the heavy hot loads and the 44 Mag is more flexible.

I picked up a 44 mag Redhawk. I have read that the 44 mag was a picky cartridge to load for. I guess people that load the 44 mag have never loaded the 45 Colt. Seems like the 44 Redhawk shoots everthing that I feed it. Tried 11 grs. of Unique behind a Saeco 431. OK load, accurate but mild. Increased to 12.5 grs Unique behind the Saeco 431. Brought things to life in the Redhawk. Shoots 1.25 inch at 25 yards. That's better than I've got from the 45LC Blackhawk in the last 2+ years. Also shot 7.5 grs Unique behind the Lee C430-310-rf. Super mild load but very accurate. This is the bullet I'll be looking to load for serious work. I'm wanting to push the 310 to about 1250fps. Anyway, so far I've thrown togeather 3 loads and all have shot great. I love the 45LC but hate the loose chambers in my Blackhawk. Wish my Redhawk was a tight 45LC. Or wish the Blackhawk had nice tight chambers.

!

[sixshot]

Lots of questions to answer here! Not sure what your 44 bullets weigh but 12.5 grs of Unique is a pretty stiff load with such a fast burning powder. With the fast powders you can be on safe ground with one load & bump up a couple of tenths & really get a pressure spike, much better to use one of the slower powders like 2400, H110 or Lil Gun if you really want to lean on it!
Both the 44 & 45 start & end with bullet "fit" if you have that, both calibers will sing some beautiful music, & they will do it with mild loads or max loads, both are great to work with.
Generally the 45's seem to have undersize throats, when they are opened up to .4525" or close to that they will shoot as good as you can hold, the 44's seem to shoot right out of the box.

Dick

[JesterGrin_1]

I have been using the Lee 31OGr with 21.OGr or 21.5Gr of W-296 Or H-110 and a Standard CCI Large Pistol Primer. AOL of 1.620 or if your chamber will allow you can set the Boolit out further. Boolit sized .431 in my .44 Mag Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter. I would start with the 21.OGr of either powder and see how things go.

I have to agree if you are going to push them use a powder made for it such as 2400 or H-110 or W-296 and leave the unique for low to mid range loads.

[44man]

Yes, if the throats in the .45 are not under size, there is no difference with loading or accuracy.
It is the Redhawk itself that is a little tricky to get accurate, I don't know if it is the grip angle or not. I worked with a bunch long ago for friends that shot IHMSA and had problems that were funny. I could not get 296 to shoot but the old H 110 turned them into tack drivers, same load and everything????????
The powders are probably the same today but the old H 110 was just a tad slower then 296 with Hodgdon getting one burn rate and WW getting another.
I never got H 110 to shoot from my S&W, SBH or SRH back then either, all preferred 296.
Yeah, I know, it's goofy with the powders being the same. Going from 4" to 1/2" at 50 meters made me take notice and I still scratch my head over it.

[Lloyd Smale]

lot of the redhawk issues come from light firing pin hits. Problem is the firing pins arent long enough and spring tension isnt high enough. Combine that with a reduced power hammer spring and ignitions is poor and even with the factory springs it leaves something to be desired.

[44man]

lot of the redhawk issues come from light firing pin hits. Problem is the firing pins arent long enough and spring tension isnt high enough. Combine that with a reduced power hammer spring and ignitions is poor and even with the factory springs it leaves something to be desired.

Probably right, even the factory had problems with the goofy spring setup. Hard to make the hammer hit hard enough and still be able to pull the trigger. I would never change the spring, just worked on the sear surfaces.
It was still a strange thing with a powder change!

[jblee10]

I agree, 12.5 grs Unique is a stiff load behind a Saeco #431. But I have a Lyman manual that lists a max of 13 with a 245gr bullet. I will be switching to H110 when I load more Lee 310 bullets. I did notice the light firing pin strikes and want to go with a longer firing pin. I haven't measured it yet, but just by looking I can see that the factory pin is short. Anyone know where to find longer pins? I think that with the Redhawk accuracy is very affected by your hold and not so much by the grip angle. Even to the point of shifting point of impact by how you hold your thumb. If I really pay attention to maintaining the same grip it groups well.

Thanks for all the input!

[44man]

I agree, 12.5 grs Unique is a stiff load behind a Saeco #431. But I have a Lyman manual that lists a max of 13 with a 245gr bullet. I will be switching to H110 when I load more Lee 310 bullets. I did notice the light firing pin strikes and want to go with a longer firing pin. I haven't measured it yet, but just by looking I can see that the factory pin is short. Anyone know where to find longer pins? I think that with the Redhawk accuracy is very affected by your hold and not so much by the grip angle. Even to the point of shifting point of impact by how you hold your thumb. If I really pay attention to maintaining the same grip it groups well.

Thanks for all the input!

That's true and some guns just never worked for me with some changing POI with a few ounce difference in pressure. A lot of times a grip change that fits the hand better can cure it.
I never had a problem with a SBH and I changed my grip a lot with different elevations and distances to the steel. I could just hold it any old way. I can't do that with a Bisley or S&W.
My 29 was the worst sometimes shifting the whole group as much as 10" if I put the gun down and picked it up again. Messes with the mind to have two 1/2" groups 10" apart at 50 meters. All of my 29's shot the second group high left of the first one. It was the reason I never got the fancy front silhouette sights to work, make an adjustment and shoot again with a different POI every time I took another grip. It was easy to shoot 10" groups, just put the gun down between shots

[hunter64]

I have never met a .44 Mag revolver that didn't like a Keith 429421 bullet with 8 grn of unique pushing it that would not print 1-1.5" at 25 yards over sandbags. I have 11 .44 Mag revolvers and they all like the bullet sized to .431 and water quenched WW with the above recipe.

If I use my Ransom Rest with my Model 629 there is just one largish hole about 3/4". Off hand I can shoot the 50 meter 6" gong 6 for 6 5 times in a row.

Unique seem to work best for me with the fast powders and 2400 is the best for slow powders.

Tried tight group, power pistol, bullseye and even trailboss but nothing I have found works like Unique and 2400.

[9.3X62AL]

The Ruger Blackhawk-series aren't the only revolvers with widely-cut 45 Colt chambers. It seems to be a common characteristic in the caliber.

I "neck-sized" a lot of 45 Colt cases for my BisHawk, just enough to hold boolits and left the bottom 5/8 of the case as-fired. Using 1873-level loads (#454424 @ 900 FPS) I could fire the cases 4-5 times before the neck-sized critters got too snug for chambering. With Ruger-level loadings (#454490 @ 1200 FPS), the second loading would barely squeeze home in the chambers--after the second firing, the cases were a no-go. Bottom line--no improvement in accuracy, either. To h--l with it.

My honed cylinder throats are @ .453" (from .448"-.449"). Grooves are .452". The Keith boolits and their .454" sizing is a draggy slip-fit into the throats, so between that 'front-end' alignment and the unsized portion of the case missed by the tungsten-carbide ring of the sizer die, I can only conclude that sufficient alignment occurs by proxy in my revolver to enable accuracy. Case life isn't long--longitudinal splits start after 6-8 loadings at Ruger specs and maybe 9-10 with 1873-level loads. So, in that respect the chamber slop issue rears its head. I would rate the accuracy of the 45 BisHawk vs. my 44 Redhawk about a 'push', though. Of course, we might be bumping up against a limit to my skills, too.

I don't recall ever having a longitudinal split in a 44 Magnum casing in the Redhawk. Some of my W-W brass has at least 15 loadings on it--most run plain-base designs about 950-1100 FPS, but there have been at least 5 full-tilt loadings on all of them. THAT is the only significant difference between the calibers I've noted. Throats are .430" from the factory, grooves are a fat .429".

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot and owned quite a few redhawks and the only one i have left is a custom 3.5 inch 44 that dustin linebaugh did for me and even it is a mediocure shooter. In all my shooting of redhawks ive never run accross one id call a tack driver. there all about 2 inch guns at 25 yards. you may find a load that is a bit better but it will take work. The super redhawks are a differnt matter. there uglier then sin but are sure great shooters. Ive yet to shoot one in any caliber that wasnt an exceptional shooter and my buddys 454 is the most accurate sixgun ive ever shot. It will routinely do one inch at a 100 yards with a scope. I still think the big differnce is the firing pin spring tension. the redhawk is just a poor design and is very inconsistant in primer hits. Dustin did an action job on my 44 and it doesnt go off reliably with anyting but a fed primer. I built the gun to shoot big loads and that means cci350s to me. Ive got an extended firing pin and a factory spring sitting here but havent installed them yet. Hopefully they will make it more reliable and posslibly a better shooter.

Probably right, even the factory had problems with the goofy spring setup. Hard to make the hammer hit hard enough and still be able to pull the trigger. I would never change the spring, just worked on the sear surfaces.
It was still a strange thing with a powder change!

[44man]

That is the reason "spring changers" never get guns to shoot.
I do change mainsprings but I make them HEAVIER then the factory.
I really hate when a guy buys a new gun and 20 guys tell him to buy a reduced power set of springs so he has a lighter trigger.
I just do not know how to get guys to back off of that idea.
IT IS THE BEST AND FASTEST WAY TO TURN A GOOD GUN TO A SLUG!

[Changeling]

That is the reason "spring changers" never get guns to shoot.
I do change mainsprings but I make them HEAVIER then the factory.
I really hate when a guy buys a new gun and 20 guys tell him to buy a reduced power set of springs so he has a lighter trigger.
I just do not know how to get guys to back off of that idea.
IT IS THE BEST AND FASTEST WAY TO TURN A GOOD GUN TO A SLUG!

That is exactly what my deceased gunsmith told me when I installed a reduced spring in my "Ruger SBH" he had set up, and I was complaining something was wrong, he actually got pissed with me, I don't blame him a bit! This was in the 80's. He changed it and told me to leave the dam thing alone! I have had no problems sense!

Back then, in my feeble defense, all the writers were talking about going to lighter springs. That's how BS gets started, someone in print says "yada, yada, yada", next thing you know it's a "paper typed fact".
Same thing with my Ruger Mark1, changed spring sets, no change in trigger noticed! However I remember writers talking about 50 and 60 % improvement, BS! Only I worked on/screwed up that pistol.

I onces asked my gunsmith if there was anything I could do to help him. He looked at me for a minute and then said, you know you have been looking a little pale lately , take that chair and go off about 100 feet that way and catch some rays. I took the hint and went home and left him alone, however we were the best of friends (when he wasn't working)!

[MtGun44]

I have done a lot of 1911 trigger jobs and NEVER change or cut the mainspring.
No need and I can get 2 lb triggers that will last for 30,000-50,000 rds untouched.

I NEVER lighten any springs in any working revolver, occasionally do lighten the rebound
spring in a S&W that is ONLY a range toy. I've seen a lot of misfires on others
revolvers due to cut down mainsprings.

Bill

[healey55]

man I don't know how you guys are getting good groups with unique. For me it just makes dirty guns and lousy groups with any bullet. None of my 44 mags likes any reasonable charge of unique.

They all seem to like AA#5 for medium loads tho and 296 or AA#9 for hot loads.

I agree about the springs. I learned my lesson on a few guns using light springs.. never again.

I also learned to use federal primers on revolvers. I think federals are about the easiest to set off.

One Redhawk I own had not so much a "short" firing pin but one that the hammer would not push deep enough. I took a tiny bit off the hammer face that hits the frame only a bit.. and it stopped the missfires.

[spyglass]

I've been using CCI 300's for Redhawk loads w/Unique & BDot for about 10 yrs and once in a great while will get a hangfire. Is it the opinion of the 44 users that handloads work better w/the Fed primers?

Healy, do you have an idea about how many thousandths/mils you removed from the hammer face? That sounds like a solution, also, if a primer change doesn't help.

[Lloyd Smale]

hamilton bowen sells extened firing pins for the redhawks that go along ways toward correcting there weekness

[healey55]

It is my opinion that the federals are the best primer for revolvers. I think they are the softest.

On my redhawk.. I probly removed about 20 thou or so but it is hard to say since I tried and reassembled a couple of times. Toward the end.. I was using a file on the hammer while it was still in the gun. It was enough that you could see the difference in how much further the pin was protruding just by looking at it from the side of the gun.

Another Ruger peened over the firing pin bushing and had to be replaced with new pin and bushing and the new pin (from Ruger) protruded noticiably more than the old one.

You would have to take a huge amount off of the hammer to make the gun unsafe. I eyeballed how much it was possible for the pin to protrude just pushing down the transfer bar and pretty much filed the hammer to match that.

I had been using CCI and WW primers before that and got the occasional missfire so that is what prompted me to touch up the hammer. I have since went to federal primers tho.

[spyglass]

That sounds about right.....I was thinkin' about .5mm. I'm gonna try that, after I try Fed primers.

May also ctc H Bowen (I've seen some of his work....a Master!).

Thx guys

[pistolman44]

H110 or WC820 gives me the best accuracy in all 44 mags. Mostly 240gr. boolits. GC 262gr cast is very accurate in my DW with WC820.