I shot some of those 358429's from a single shot Martini. Load as I recall was about 10 grains or so of 2400, I doubt it was over 12 grains. That slug would totally penetrate an 8 inch tree trunk. I was surprised. It was cast from straight WW. Flat nose has to be VERY effective on game. Cast bullets always seem to get much better penetration then I expect. A high speed .223 just blew a dish shaped gouge about 4 inches in diameter and maybe an inch or so deep. Both shots were at about 30 yards. The .223 was a varmint bullet which you would expect to blow up.