lyman 358429 357mag

[Franklin Zeman]

I shot some of those 358429's from a single shot Martini. Load as I recall was about 10 grains or so of 2400, I doubt it was over 12 grains. That slug would totally penetrate an 8 inch tree trunk. I was surprised. It was cast from straight WW. Flat nose has to be VERY effective on game. Cast bullets always seem to get much better penetration then I expect. A high speed .223 just blew a dish shaped gouge about 4 inches in diameter and maybe an inch or so deep. Both shots were at about 30 yards. The .223 was a varmint bullet which you would expect to blow up.

[dualsport]

I have this mold but have neglected it. Where can I read more about the Skeeter load? Also, any idea what the pressures are? I have a J frame .357 with a 3" barrel and don't want to loosen it up with too many full house loads. Anyone tried it in a carbine?

[txbirdman]

There's a bunch of articles by Skeeter Skelton on www.darkcanyon.net I believe. I don't recall Skeeter using this bullet. He was a big fan of the 358156 seated in the bottom crimp groove and loaded in .38 Special brass over 13.5 gr. of 2400. That's a much lighter load that using the 359429 over that powder charge at conventional .38 Special length. If I remember correctly the 358429 over 13.5 gr. of 2400 was Elmer Keith load used in the S&W 38/44. BTW the only reason Skeeter used the above load was that .357 brass was in short supply today there's no reason other than nostalgia to do that.

[Shiloh]

You may have to trim brass and dedicate it to a specific revolver if too long.
My experience is fine accuracy with that boolit.

Shiloh

[Wally]

You may have to trim brass and dedicate it to a specific revolver if too long.
My experience is fine accuracy with that boolit.

Shiloh

I did just that, so that it would shoot in my S & W 27...I don't have the problem with a Ruger Blackhawk. After I had used this mold for quite some time I tried an RCBS 82032 150 SWC--it is just as good and will fit any revolver with a full length .357 Magnum case.

[dualsport]

Just for the record, Ed Harris pressure tested Skeeter's load and it was near .357 mag proof specs. Ed, "Skeeter Skelton's published loads are too hot." A little research shows many of Skeeter's loads to be over loading manual maximums. Just a caution, maybe oughta work up those loads gradually. It does look like they used to really firewall the .357 in the early days.

[RSOJim]

txbirdman, you are right. I have loaded Skeeters load, 38 special case, thompson designed 358156 boolit, 13.5 grains of 2400 with the boolit seated in the lower or bottom seating grove. Shoots pretty nice. I used it in a mod 66 smith for years. Now Elmers load is a whole nother ball game. I don't use it at all. thanks Jim

[Mack Heath]

txbirdman, you are right. I have loaded Skeeters load, 38 special case, thompson designed 358156 boolit, 13.5 grains of 2400 with the boolit seated in the lower or bottom seating grove. Shoots pretty nice. I used it in a mod 66 smith for years. Now Elmers load is a whole nother ball game. I don't use it at all. thanks Jim

Gentlemen,

There was/is nothing wrong with using the 357429 over 13.5 grains of 2400 in .38 Special cases. It is within the SAAMI limits for the .357.

Take a look at any of the Lyman manuals from recent years, like the 47th, 48th, or 49th. You will find the equivalent to the above load in the .357 data. When Lyman uses that bullet in .357 cases, they crimp the bullet over the shoulder giving it an OAL of 1.553 inches. The pressure they measure is 41.1 KCUP.

When the 357429 is loaded in a .38 Special case and crimped in the crimp groove, the shortest OAL you come up with is 1.535. Depending on how old your brass is, when you last trimmed it to minimum, and just where in the crimp groove you crimp the bullet, that 0.018" difference can disappear. And that 0.018 inch difference in length only accounts for about 2000 psi difference in pressure according to Quickload. So it is still a safe load.

The thing you need to remember is that, unlike every other cartridge, the .357 has two totally different pressure levels. Unlike all of the other cartridges, the difference in pressure numbers is not due to the different pressure measurement systems.

In fact, if you want to see this for yourself and you can find the Accurate Arms #1 manual and the #2 Revised, you will see something quite startling. The #1 used the piezoelectric standard and loaded only to 35KSI. The #2 Revised used the older CUP standard, which is still currently acceptable BTW, and loaded up to 40+KCUP.

Here is the interesting thing. The MAX load for the #1 was the STARTING load for the #2 Revised. Same lab, same technicians, same components, totally different data.

Since proof loads start at 25% over max, if Ed Harris used a piezoelectric system and the SAAMI standard that goes along with it, a 35 KSI max would result in the proof pressure of 43 KSI, which is just about the max allowable working pressure for the CUP-based system. So while the old loads would have been generating proof pressures based on the piezoelectric standard, they are operating within the allowable range using the older copper crusher-based system.

[Maven]

"If you use this bullet in the 357 Mag., you'll often times have to seat it pretty deep in the case to prevent the long nose from protruding from the cylinder. In many Smith's the bullet has to be seated such that a mild crimp of the case is folded over the front drive band of the bullet." ---Ben

All, Seating #358429 deeply and crimping over the front driving band, as Ben mentioned, is Lyman's advice as well. However, there is a better way. To wit, Brian Pearce, who writes for "Handloader" magazine suggested trimming .357mag. brass to 1.25", which will allow #358429 to be seated "normally" and crimped in the crimp groove. I now follow Brian's advice and trim all .357 brass to 1.25" and haven't had a single problem with -429 or a LBT 180gr. CB, which I can now roll crimp in place.

[txbirdman]

Elmer Keith used his load in a .38 Special not a .357 Mag. It was the 38/44 Nframe but if you put 13.5 gr. of 2400 behind a 170 gr. 358429 in .38 Special brass you better be sure it doesn't find it's way into a J or K frame .38 Special or you're flirting with a dangerous situation in my opinion.

With Skeeter's load there's no danger of shooting it in a .38 Spcl because the OAL is too great when crimped in the bottom crimp groove, not so with Elmer's load. There's not many N frame .38 Spcls floating around these days so proceed with caution.

[LAH]

The 358429 is a beautiful bullet & a great shooter...............Creeker

[dualsport]

Can't argue with that. It is a beauty. Thanks for the great pictures.