30-40 Krag vs. 307 Winchester

[HEAD0001]

Just looking for a direct comparison between the 30-40 Krag and the 307 Winchester cartridge?? What do you guys think about these two?? Main usage will be deer hunting and general fun shooting. With most shooting being done with cast bullets. But I would also like to be able to shoot jacketed if I want to?? Not really wanting to critique the rifle it will be used in, just a cartridge comparison. However the rifle will be an Encore. So barrel length would also be an important part of the topic. And any mold suggstions. Thanks, Tom.

[dominicfortune00]

IIRC, isn't the 307 Winchester a 308 with a rim?

[excavman]

I don't have any experience with the 307, can't even find any load data for it. I have been shooting the Krag for forty of the 118 years it has been around. I don't figure a cartridge would be around that long if it wasn't pretty darn good. The two boolits I use most are the 311316gc 115grs and the 311284gc 210 grs.

Larry

[twildman]

The 30-40 has that nice looong neck, so good for cast boolits...

[Mk42gunner]

My take on it is that you will always be able to find Krag cases, maybe from a seasonal run, but they made them for years. The .307 Winchester is well on the way of the dodo bird, however nice a cartidge it is. This from a guy that has a .32 long rimfire.

Robert

[Multigunner]

This from a guy that has a .32 long rimfire.

Robert

Geez you too?
I've been looking for a source of .32 rimfire shorts for quiet awhile. I had both a Remington .32 pocket revolver and a Forehand & Wadsworth here for awhile, both belonging to friends, but we never could find ammo for them.

I agree that the .30-40 is the better choice, especially for cast boolits.

[rhbrink]

You can make .307 Win. cases out of .444 Rem. cases. I really like the Krag myself but what about the 7.62 X 54R cases easy'er to get than Krag stuff and I think it would make a dandy single shot cases especially if you already have brass and dies.

[Multigunner]

The 7.62X54R uses the same bullets as the .303 british, which means a much smaller range of available bullet types. Also suitable .311 barrels aren't as easy to find or as economical as .308 bore barrels, not much selection there either.

Aside from that I'd say the 7.62X54R would be a fine choice for a single shot. Its loaded to higher pressures than the standard .30-40 so you could load it too max pressures and not worry about reloads ending up being fired in an old Krag by mistake.

[northmn]

30-40 Krag cases are probably as easy to get or more so than the 307 Winchester which is only loaded by WW. Because of its long neck I would not hesitate using the Krag with cast. I ahve used the 303 British with cast with very good results and either will handle cast bullets about as well as you want to load them in that caliber. I could get about 1900 fps with a 218 grain bullet in the 303. Beyond that you get into jacketed bullet ranges. A world record elk was killed many years ago with a 30-40 and a 220 gr jacketed bullet at around 2000 fps. In a modern made gun with a 308 barrel (which has been done) the 7.62X54 Russian would likely work with cast. The one I tried in a military carbine had a slugged diameter of 317 and was not worth the bother to get it to shoot with cast. In milsurps they do have a reputation for being touchy. Even the Finish version has been said to group tight and throw one. But the Finish versions are very good rifles and can be made to shoot. I can think of no real advantage for cast with the Russian as one can load the 30-40 to about as tight of a load as you want with cast. If you are going to shoot jacketed get a 30-06 or 308.

Northmn

[6.5 mike]

One of my russians was made for the czar's by remington. The barrel slugs 0.3015/0.3095 & I shoot lee 185s sized to .311 in it. My old krag (dec. 1900) is 0.3005/0.3095, use the same boolit in it. Both group just about the same, only real difference is the krag sight is much easier to use. The russian still has the first issue sights based on a 28 in step. Really messes you up if you aare used to yards or meters.
I think the 7.62x54r would make a good cast shooter in a single shot, with the correct pilot & reamer, it wouldn't be hard to make up a barrel.
Last 30-40 brass I got was from sinclair, ordered 200 cases & they came from the same lot.
This might be an interesting project in a roller, hummm.

[excess650]

"This from a guy that has a .32 long rimfire."

I had a Stevens 44 in 32RF. One guy converted the block, another rebored the barrel, and I chambered it 38 Special.

A 25RF can be converted to 22RF by installing a liner and modifying the extractor.

Oh, on the subject, the .307 is a rimmed .308, but maybe thicker cases. I would prefer the Krag case for cast bullets, and particularly in a singelshot.

[lathesmith]

30/40 vs 307? Performance-wise, flip a coin, with a possibly a slight advantage to the Krag so far as cast is concerned. But a deer ain't gonna know the difference, both will produce DRT kills with proper shot placement. With the Encore you can have virtually any barrel length you want, and in any profile. So, pick the cartridge you like best, and if you can't decide flip a coin--executive decision-making at its finest.

lathesmith

[Mk42gunner]

Geez you too?
I've been looking for a source of .32 rimfire shorts for quiet awhile. I had both a Remington .32 pocket revolver and a Forehand & Wadsworth here for awhile, both belonging to friends, but we never could find ammo for them.

I agree that the .30-40 is the better choice, especially for cast boolits.

Since there is interest...

My .32 Rimfire is a Remington No.2 Rolling Block that I converted to centerfire by modifying a breechblock from one of the rolling block pistols. I used a different block so I can put it back original.

Navy Arms has had a couple of runs of .32 Long rimefire manufactured in Brazil, I think by CBC. I don't know of any modern .32 Shorts being imported.

The Navy Arms rimfires I have shot lead the barrel pretty bad, the new Winchester .32 Short Colts haven't leaded yet. I am looking for a Lyman 299153 mold; but will probably end up attempting to,ake one myself, if I ever get my lathe going.

Robert

[Multigunner]

Since there is interest...

My .32 Rimfire is a Remington No.2 Rolling Block that I converted to centerfire by modifying a breechblock from one of the rolling block pistols. I used a different block so I can put it back original.

Navy Arms has had a couple of runs of .32 Long rimefire manufactured in Brazil, I think by CBC. I don't know of any modern .32 Shorts being imported.

The Navy Arms rimfires I have shot lead the barrel pretty bad, the new Winchester .32 Short Colts haven't leaded yet. I am looking for a Lyman 299153 mold; but will probably end up attempting to,ake one myself, if I ever get my lathe going.

Robert

Marlin once produced a .32 lever action that could be switched from rimfire to centerfire and back.

My older brother has a pretty beat up No.4 Remington Rolling Block in .22 RF.
Its a beat up old hog rifle with badly rusted out bore ,but still a nice wallhanger.
Even with the rusty bore we'd shoot .22 shorts, ratshot, and CB caps through it with fair accuracy.

Unfortunately some previous owner had hammered down the front of the receiver to keep its takedown barrel from wobbling around, otherwise I'd try to rebarrel it.

[Tom308]

Eleven or twelve years ago, I purchased an H&R Handi rifle in .30-30. Before firing it, I had it reamed to .30-40. I got board with it and gave most of my brass and ammo away. I've since started shooting it again and really enjoy it. The rifle shoots a lot beter than I do. I just use the LEE C309-200R boolit in mine. Works great. Someone mentioned the 7,64x54 round. I read of someone who converted a .30-30 handi rifle to that chamber with a .308 bullet. As I recall, they liked it a lot. Since the 307 is often referred to as a rimmed .308, why not just get a .308 barrel and go with it. What ever you do, it's your decision.
Enjoy
Tom