Your opinions on tumblers vs vibratory cleaners????

[RaymondMillbrae]

MIKE IN CO...

your're right, and I'm wrong. (There you go).

To the rest of the readers interested, my buddy just finished picking-up a few pounds of corn cob and walnut media for our group.

Twenty pounds for $7.00 ain't bad...ain't bad at all.

I used to add polish to my brass. When I first started reloading I LOVED that polished, gleaming in the sun look - but not any longer. As long as it is clean (as evidenced by the even satiny-look), I am happy that it will perform as needed.

I'm a reloader, a competitive shooter, and happy with my reloads. What more can I ask for...except being a better shooter, and a long happy life.

Shoot with a purpose.

In Christ: Raymond

[mike in co]

MIKE IN CO...

your're right, and I'm wrong. (There you go).

To the rest of the readers interested, my buddy just finished picking-up a few pounds of corn cob and walnut media for our group.

Twenty pounds for $7.00 ain't bad...ain't bad at all.

I used to add polish to my brass. When I first started reloading I LOVED that polished, gleaming in the sun look - but not any longer. As long as it is clean (as evidenced by the even satiny-look), I am happy that it will perform as needed.

I'm a reloader, a competitive shooter, and happy with my reloads. What more can I ask for...except being a better shooter, and a long happy life.

Shoot with a purpose.

In Christ: Raymond

being willing to continue learning is a positive thing in life.

stop learning and you are already dead, just walking around.

i have been loading since about 1970...so i may have a few years on you there.

i too am happy with my loading.

shoot a bunch of disciplines...so yes i am a competive shooter...rifles pistols shotguns....


and a long happy life to all

mike in co

[Clark]

1999
I tried wrapping fine steel wool around a bronze brush and spinning it in the lathe and shoving the case neck over the brush.
This will get the inside of the necks clean, but takes too many man hours, as the steel wool constantly changes shape.

2004
I tried a few twists of the wrist in fine steel wool, and the outside of the case is clean enough.

2005
I got a vibratory cleaner and polish from Berry's Bullets.
I tried corn cob media.
I tried Walnut media.
It gets the outside clean in 5 minutes.
The inside of the necks are still dirty after 48 hours.

2008
I got another vibratory cleaner with Dillon cleaner, when someone died.
Same results.

2008
I learned the trick of putting a few paper towels, torn into 1" wide strips, into the mix.
This keeps the media clean and gets the paper towel dirty instead.

2009
I read the 6mmBR article and bought an ultrasound, vinegar, Lemishine, and soda.
It only gets case neck insides clean that are held over the transducer and pointed down.
I made a fixture for holding the case necks over the center of the tank, over the transducer.
I can get the inside of the necks clean, but it takes too many man hours.
The project is not a total bust, as the ultrasound cleans bronze brushes very well.

2010
I got a high speed Thumbler Model B.
I got 5 pounds of stainless steel media [ round rods .041" dia, .255" long]
I tumbled for 12 hours with an ounce of Ivory dish washing liquid and Lemishine, with water to the top.
This does get the inside of the necks reasonably clean with few man hours.
The outside has the same sparkle as new brass.

Every notice how new Win or RP brass has a burr on the necks that you may cut off with an inside and outside chamfer?

I can guess that Win and RP are tumbling the brass to get that sparkling finish.
Because the brass case mouths need to be chamfered inside and out AGAIN after 12 hours of tumbling.

[mike in co]

12 hours of tumbling is way too long in my book.

corncob/new finish car polish and the case is clean.
..if you want the inside of the neck clean, after sizing, use the correct size copper bore brush, with a hand tool or power source.

i only do that to match rifle ammo

mike in co

[prs]

Clark; I've about given up on the new ultrasonic Hornady unit. Way too much time to clean way too few cases. This weekend past, I sponsored a family shoot with 45 Colt black powder loads. We went through about 500 rounds. Imagine me waiting around while maybe a dozen or two cases at a time are processed through 4 to 6 full 480 second cycles each on that Hornady contraption; no way! I put about half of the filthy cases into my model B (about half full or 2/3 full and just barely covered with hot water, a half cup of vinegar, and a tablespoon of liquid cloths washer concentrate. Tumbled three hours while I rode motorcycles with the kids. Later, I rinsed and deprimed and repeated with the second batch. Very clean except for primer pockets on about half (but I had to get them clean before deprime anyway - black powder will kill deprime pins with rust if done dirty).

I then used the citric acid solutoin as directed by Hornady, and ran each batch again (deprimed) for 3 hours in model B; just enough solution to barely cover the cases. All clean, inside and outside. I used no "media"; I hate sifting that stuff out of the cases. I rinsed them all and while in the sink draining, I put a toothpase sized strip of Lee Case Lube on my hands and ran my fingers through the whole batch until evenly coated. They then went into an onion sac to air dry.

Next time I am going to tumble initially in the citric acid solution first and see how they look when I deprime them. I wonder if muriatic acid solution would be better (rubber gloves of course). My "Holy Grail" would be for the primer pockets to be clean when I deprime in the press -- much savings of time!

prs

[jeff423]

It's really quite simple:

If some one gives you a rotary tumbler - use it!
If some one gives you an ultrasonic - use it!

If you have to buy one, get a good vibratory unit - 2 hours with treated media is all you need.

Jeff

[WallyM3]

Well, I'm glad that's settled...

Just for argument's sake, let's say that someone wanted to achieve a mirror-like finish on their brass (after cleaning by one of the effective methods), what would the procedure be?

[mike in co]

Well, I'm glad that's settled...

Just for argument's sake, let's say that someone wanted to achieve a mirror-like finish on their brass (after cleaning by one of the effective methods), what would the procedure be?

why would be my question ?


make a mandrel and a collet...chuck it up on your lathe and polish them.....

or go buy nickle cases.......

but i'll go back to my question .....WHY ??


mike in co
THE COLORADO BRASS COMPANY

[WallyM3]

No acrimony intended, but it's because I want to.

It's a matter of personal preference in my personal sport, no more and no less. I derive a certain satisfaction in producing something that not only performs best (for me), but also looks spectacular.

Funny you should mention the lathe bit, though. I'm just reassembling a 9A for grinding and polishing. But I sure don't want to do my empties case-by-case that way.

[RaymondMillbrae]

Try some corn media with Dillons polish for that super shiny look.

Some high power precision shooters polish their brass (literally) for better chamber/brass contact, and extraction. Some even mill their own solid copper rounds.

There are a bunch of great formulas out there for polishing brass.

Look at some of the high power "meat-eater" sites.

You wanna see a great site? Then check this out. (CLICK HERE).

In Christ: Raymond

[docone31]

If you get either a vibratory tumbler, or rotary tumbler, stainless steel shot for jewelery mass finishing, and burnishing compound.
You will get the finish you are looking for.
Bright shiny brass and nickle.

[prs]

I have a very nice vibratory "tumbler", the orange one with the bottom pour feature and it has several other containers that it can use. It even does a fair shake with wet ceramic media. With dry cob media or dry crushed black walnut media, it still does a lousy job of getting the primer pockets clean. The outside of the cases? Piece of cake! But those pockets not only stay crusty, but often cob media clogs the flash holes.

prs

[mike in co]

Some even mill their own solid copper rounds.

high power shooters shooting solid copper ???( high power is a discipline.....)


just send me thier names


and maybe you can explain to all us poor lathe operators how one MILLS a bullet ?

( now i know a guy with a 20 mm and 37mm cannon and he does machine(lathe cut) some of his own bullets...but thats not high power)

mike

[mike in co]

No acrimony intended, but it's because I want to.

It's a matter of personal preference in my personal sport, no more and no less. I derive a certain satisfaction in producing something that not only performs best (for me), but also looks spectacular.

Funny you should mention the lathe bit, though. I'm just reassembling a 9A for grinding and polishing. But I sure don't want to do my empties case-by-case that way.

it works...i just sold some 40/50's '06 brass that was jewelry quality in looks.......llooked to be lathe cut and polished, even the head.....but clearly lc/denver/ra etc.

mike in co

[RaymondMillbrae]

QUOTE: high power shooters shooting solid copper ???( high power is a discipline.....). just send me thier names and maybe you can explain to all us poor lathe operators how one MILLS a bullet ?


Mike,

I am glad you are open to learning how to mill (turn) a high power solid copper bullet.

Try contacting GS CUSTOM to answer some of your more technical questions. Their names and phone numbers should be on their website.

Below are a few pictures of their machines, and an actual bullet being milled/turned.

If you would like more references, I can try to link you to more high power websites, or solid copper bullet manufacturers. Technology is incredible now-a-days.

In Christ: Raymond





GS bullets are turned on high-quality, Austrian-made CNC machines from 99.9% pure copper bars and tolerances are held to less than 0.005mm. Even the room temperature is controlled to ensure that heat expansion of the equipment or copper bars does not affect the final sizing of the bullets. Finished bullets are measured at least four times on a Swiss digital micrometer (accurate to 0.001mm) to ensure that dimensions are kept within specs. These careful production methods not only ensure that all bullets are cosmetically pleasing to the eye, but also that their weight is very uniform. I weighed ten bullets each of three calibres, then did the same with three popular imported brands of bullets to check uniformity of weight — the GS bullets won comfortably.

[mike in co]

QUOTE: high power shooters shooting solid copper ???( high power is a discipline.....). just send me thier names and maybe you can explain to all us poor lathe operators how one MILLS a bullet ?


Mike,

I am glad you are open to learning how to mill (turn) a high power solid copper bullet.

Try contacting GS CUSTOM to answer some of your more technical questions. Their names and phone numbers should be on their website.

Below are a few pictures of their machines, and an actual bullet being milled/turned.

If you would like more references, I can try to link you to more high power websites, or solid copper bullet manufacturers. Technology is incredible now-a-days.

In Christ: Raymond





GS bullets are turned on high-quality, Austrian-made CNC machines from 99.9% pure copper bars and tolerances are held to less than 0.005mm. Even the room temperature is controlled to ensure that heat expansion of the equipment or copper bars does not affect the final sizing of the bullets. Finished bullets are measured at least four times on a Swiss digital micrometer (accurate to 0.001mm) to ensure that dimensions are kept within specs. These careful production methods not only ensure that all bullets are cosmetically pleasing to the eye, but also that their weight is very uniform. I weighed ten bullets each of three calibres, then did the same with three popular imported brands of bullets to check uniformity of weight — the GS bullets won comfortably.

lol...you need to go do some reading...turning and milling are not the same.
turning is a lathe type operation even on a cnc lathe.
mills are not normally used to turn anything.

[I]GS bullets are turned on high-quality, Austrian-made CNC machines from 99.9% pure copper bars"
that is from your quote.....turmed, on cnc...not MILLED.
and from your referenced site:
"All GSC bullets are turned from copper rod" ......again turning is a LATHE operation, not a MILL opperation.

and so who is the highpower shooters using the solid copper bullets ??....you seem to have skipped that one.

[mike in co]

i went to thier site and in the reloading section...NO 223 REM/5.56!

in high power shooting it is the most popular round...but not on thier site!

so again what high power shooter is using solid copper bullets in high power competition ?


??? the tubb's in a space gun ?

just asking.....


mike in co

(i have nothing against YOU, but some of YOUR statements are a bit tough to swallow.)

[WallyM3]

(Note to self: Now have excuse for second case vibrator and a lever collet closer for Heavy 10)

Actually, just the other day, I polished a couple of just-sized 40 S&W cases to better examine some "shouldering" I was getting at the base of the case. I had forgotten just how nice a job Brasso and a rag did on brass (probably because I had done way to much of it for Uncle Sam decades go). I have visions of a Nylon 5C emergency collet to speed the process for that special, now and again, brass.



I bookmarked the BR site. Lots of material there to spend some time with.

Waz "meat eaters"?

[mike in co]

(Note to self: Now have excuse for second case vibrator and a lever collet closer for Heavy 10)

Actually, just the other day, I polished a couple of just-sized 40 S&W cases to better examine some "shouldering" I was getting at the base of the case. I had forgotten just how nice a job Brasso and a rag did on brass (probably because I had done way to much of it for Uncle Sam decades go). I have visions of a Nylon 5C emergency collet to speed the process for that special, now and again, brass.



I bookmarked the BR site. Lots of material there to spend some time with.

Waz "meat eaters"?

get the hornady 40 sw push thru sace sizer...then polish.....should remove the shoulder.

[asw1911pc@aol.com]

Just place a used fabric softener in the media and all the dirt will go in the sheet. it works