Cast Dum-dums?

[sheepdog]

Another member told me about how the old timers would place a slice of paper in their moulds to achieve a tip that had a split in it somewhat like a dum-dum. Have anyone tried this to see how it reacts ballistically, on game, etc?

[Marlin Hunter]

Interesting idea. I will have to try it sometime. I would think the paper would burn, but maybe it lasts long enough to cast one boolit. A slit tip would probably cause some out-of-balance situation and hurt accuracy. I wonder if centrifugal force would cause a rifle boolit to separate into 2 pieces somewhere just past the muzzle.

[Heavy lead]

aluminum foil tape

[mpmarty]

Arvo Ojalla a holster maker of some repute and a trick shot used to do a stunt with a cast boolit with a piece of cigarette paper between the blocks. He loaded these in a 45 long colt and in his stunt he had a "helper" hold up a knife and there was a large target behind the knife. Sure enough he fired and produced two distinct holes in the target thus proving he had "cut the boolit in half on the knife".

[sqlbullet]

Handloader covered this in the June 2009 issue in an article entitled Cast Bullet Expansion.

Lucky for you it is available as a part of the teaser PDF they put online for each issue.

[45 2.1]

Handloader covered this in the June 2009 issue in an article entitled Cast Bullet Expansion.

Lucky for you it is available as a part of the teaser PDF they put online for each issue.

BruceB is refered to as: A fellow on the Internet site
“Cast Boolits”. I read the article....... a lot of old technology there. It is much easier to cast a boolit of soft ductile alloy......... no need to do more as it shoots really fine and expands much better than anything you can buy. BRP has the mold I designed to do just that.

[fredj338]

Handloader covered this in the June 2009 issue in an article entitled Cast Bullet Expansion.

Lucky for you it is available as a part of the teaser PDF they put online for each issue.

I read the articel as well. IMO, easier to cast HP. Erik @ HPMS can hook your fav. mold up w/ a single cav HP. That is how I would go. A small cup point in say 400gr 45-70 mold would work quite well.

[Char-Gar]

Well, just what is a dum-dum bullet? Like many things, there is not agreement between the so called experts. The only things certain is they were expanding bullets, made illegal for warfare by a Hague convention in the last few years of the 19th century. Most like they picked up the name from the Dumdum arsenal near Calcutta that produced ammo with both soft lead and hollow point bullets.

[JIMinPHX]

I always thought that a dumdum was just a soft point.

[JIMinPHX]

Handloader covered this in the June 2009 issue in an article entitled Cast Bullet Expansion.

Lucky for you it is available as a part of the teaser PDF they put online for each issue.

That's an interesting article. I think that the wax he shot into was too hard of a material for an accurate assessment of how the boolit would perform on game based on the effects I saw on a 1520fps 12bnh flat point, but other than that, it was an interesting read.

I may try the lead ball trick some time. I was previously unfamiliar with that method. I would think that a preheated ball & a very hot pot would be necessary for that method to work.

I still like using my hollow pointing drill jigs because they let me adjust the size of the hollow point to be whatever I want it to be. That method allows me to make smaller hollow points in boolits that I plan to push at higher speeds to keep my expansion under control.

[docone31]

Back in WWI, in DumDum India, they made a soft point bullet.
These would be Xed with a knife.
I believe however, it was political rather than practical descisions made on the type of bullet. If memory serves me, I read it, was not there, the Geneva convention outlawed the Dum Dum.

[Char-Gar]

It was the Germans who fussed about expanding bullet in warfare. A few years later, they were spewing mustard gas all over the battlefield. They also tried to have shotguns outlawed as well. The Krauts didn't want expanding rifle bullets or double 0 buckshot to hit their soldiers, but they do love their gas!

[sheepdog]

To clarify a dum-dum was a 303 with the projectile loaded **** end forward but its better known as slang for what solders and later pre-hollowpoint days people did to these and other flat projectiles by cutting a deep X in the head, making it split on impact into four spurs. If you open a really old box of 38s you'll occasionally see a few cut as such for poor mans defensive loads.

My question as OP was has anyone done with with rifle projectiles. Being there longer, narrower, and moving far faster that makes me wonder if they wouldnt just fly apart.

[jdgabbard]

To clarify a dum-dum was a 303 with the projectile loaded **** end forward but its better known as slang for what solders and later pre-hollowpoint days people did to these and other flat projectiles by cutting a deep X in the head, making it split on impact into for spurs. If you open a really open box of 38s you'll occasionally see a few cut as such for poor mans defensive loads.

My question as OP was has anyone done with with rifle projectiles. Being there longer, narrower, and moving far faster that makes me wonder if they wouldnt just fly apart.

Sheepdog is absolutly right, hence the famous movie quote,"what you got in there, dum dums?"

[KCSO]

The 'dum-dum' was a British military bullet developed for use in India - at the Dum-Dum Arsenal - on the North West Frontier in the late 1890s.

The dum-dum comprised a jacketed .303 bullet with the jacket nose open to expose its lead core. The aim was to improve the bullet's effectiveness by increasing its expansion upon impact.


From here the name went generic to include any expanding bullet. For example in the 1970's when PD's switched to jacketed hollowpoints we were castigated for using DUM DUMS that were prohibited by law. Supposedly the Hauge Convention of which If I remmeber right we didn't sign anyway.

[sagacious]

The 'dum-dum' was a British military bullet developed for use in India - at the Dum-Dum Arsenal - on the North West Frontier in the late 1890s.

Correct.

The dum-dum comprised a jacketed .303 bullet with the jacket nose open to expose its lead core. The aim was to improve the bullet's effectiveness by increasing its expansion upon impact.

Correct.

From here the name went generic to include any expanding bullet. For example in the 1970's when PD's switched to jacketed hollowpoints we were castigated for using DUM DUMS that were prohibited by law. Supposedly the Hauge Convention of which If I remmeber right we didn't sign anyway.

Correct again. The US is not a signatory nation to the prohibition of expanding bullets used in warfare.

[MT Gianni]

Somewhere I have an American Rifleman from Sept? 1967 that has a write in column. One NRA member writes of doing this and using check end stubs. I assume that is the paper left by a check when torn off. His claim was that it was the proper thickness and width for this. He also said to make sure that there was no one in a 10' radius in front of your bbl as the occasionally came apart upon leaving the barrel. That was enough for me not to try it. I don't shoot with people in front of me but would hate to depend on a cast boolit expanding and have it so out of balance as to not hit the target.

[MtGun44]

During the 1860s thru the1890s (IIRC) the British experimented with hollow points, copper
tubes in hollow points, copper tubes filled with fulminate of mercury, and other ways of
causing more dramatic results when fighting in India and Africa. I believe that many of
these were designed and produced at the Dum-Dum Arsenal in India, hence the name.

In modern movie parlance (if you learn about guns from a movie you sure don't learn
anything much that is actually TRUE!) they apparently mean some sort of softpoint or
hollowpoint, possibly even something modified, like the X's that are mentioned. I consider
it to be a term that has no solid definition beyond the British ammo and avoid using
since most that do use it are pretty uneducated/maleducated about firearms and
especially terminal ballistics. When I hear the term I can usually depend on the user
to be pretty ignorant of guns, although not always - which surprises me since I don't
think it has any sort of a reliable definition - making the term almost useless.

[runfiverun]

in the redneck world it refers to taking a pocket knife and whittling out the lead from a rifle bullets tip.
to make it open faster, works on old round nose 30-30's too well [experience]
and the making a very deep x on the nose of either a rifle bullet or cutting one in the soft lead of revolver boolits back in the old west even.
kinda like glaser safety slugs or the 22's made even now days.
the petals would break off and go there separate ways.

[Wayne Smith]

If I remember right the paper in the mold idea was mentioned in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook as well. I think I also remember that it was not recommended.