For the record I have the Lee dies and use the .284 brass and I have not experienced any trouble with either. As far as the brass is concerned I have not lost one piece of brass yet because of using the Lee dies and have lost count of how many re-loadings the .284 brass has on them.
the only company that marks their dies K31. Since seeing is believing, here's the CH version. But then, you didn't mention them as one you'd bought. I guess it boils down to whatever each feels is right for them. I sized one case that had been fired in K31 in a regular 7.5x55 die, that was all I needed to prompt me to purchase the K31 set. I still have the regular set should I ever get an older model of the Swiss rifle, they're CH too, when they were still in CA.
Last edited by madsenshooter; 04-07-2011 at 07:09 PM.
Originally Posted by jack19512
jack,
to keep things in context...my concern is based on the fact that some of my brass is NORMA(read that as not cheap), and the desire to get keep it in use as long as practical.
if i was only shooting 284 brass( read as not expensive) this might have never been an issue.
the pics in the above post clearly show that at least two die makers understand there is a DIFFERENCE in the two chambers.
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
I have 2 sets of 7.5X55 dies. One is Lee and the other is RCBS. The second came as part of a buy of several used sets. I haven't been too observant of dimensions but I haven't reloaded any of my brass more than once so far. I have read every post in this thread but still have some questions:
1. When a K-31 size die is referred to are you talking about a full length size die
or neck sizer? If neck sizer, would I have to segregate brass from each of
my two K-31's or is there a way to tell if the chambers are similar enough
that this is not necessary?
2. Does Redding sell the sizer only or do I have to buy a set?
3. All my brass is either Prvi or Hornady. Not reformed .284. I get the
impression that reformed .284 is better. Yes/No?
Is the difference worth buying new .284 and necking up?
Sorry to be so dense, but this K-31 stuff confuses me.
John
W.TN
I am using a Lee collet die for the K31 I shoot the most. I have gone past 10 reloads on brass (prvi) and I am still reloading it. I do not use full power charges much which might be helping with brass life.
I did have a K31 that let me partial neck size with the Lee full length sizing die. Gave that one away and haven't found a K31 again that I can do that will.
Might look into the CH or RCBS dies one of these days.
I have not noticed any excessive lengthening of cases in my K31, using Lee 7.5x55 dies. I've been using Winchester .284 Win brass reformed to 7.5x55 as well as Prvi Partisan brass.
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
WHAT KIND OF LOADS ARE YOU SHOOTING ?
again if one goes back to my original posts, i was shooting 135 jacketed at 2900 fps or so,,,,and trying to keep my normal brass in service.
i would not expect lots of growth with lite cast boolit loads.
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
I have 2 1911's and 2 k31 and have experienced non of these problems, lucky I guess. I have Lee dies in this cal. and load them like any other cal. I have found that new Graf brass needs to be sized and trimmed before loading. OAL of their brass is not uniform at all. Too long and wouldn't chamber.. Norma is the best brass,but it's so darn expensive.
Good Luck,
Steve
1. The CH die is a full length sizer, one that sizes less that the regular 7.5x55 die, A chamber cast would tell you if your chambers are similiar enough that segregation wouldn't be necessary. My guess would be that you wouldn't have to, the Swiss stuck to some close tolerances.
2. Can't answer that, call or ask, I know CH will sell the sizer only.
3. I've no experience with the .284 brass, so can't answer this one. My GRAFS headstamped brass (made by PRVI,) works fine. I would think your Hornady brass would be top notch.
Full power loads using 168 grain Hornady A-Max bullets largely.
I totally agree that the Redding dies or any other possible dies that are made specifically for the K31 are best. I just don't want someone totally new to reloading for the K31 to think or to be led to believe that the Redding dies or equivalent are a must have.
I reload and cast for more calibers than I had planned on now and like a lot of people I am not made of money so sometimes the more expensive equipment has to take a back seat to less expensive equipment as long as this equipment will do the job to my satisfaction.
As stated already I use the Lee dies and .284 brass(can't afford the Norma) and I have had none of the problems some others seem to have had. I am quite satisfied with my K31 reloads and accuracy considering no longer than I have been doing this.
My own belief is if you want the very best and can afford it than by all means get the Redding dies but do not be fooled into believing you cannot get some very satisfactory results using the Lee dies. I have in the past posted groups shot from my K31 and don't care to post them again for anyone interested. I am honestly curious as to what your Redding dies do better and to what extent they do this better than the Lee dies I use. You never know, you may be able to convince me I need the Redding dies.
I am honestly curious as to what your Redding dies do better and to what extent they do this better than the Lee dies I use. You never know, you may be able to convince me I need the Redding dies.
i tried, lyman, rcbs, and lee.....none of these 7.5x55 swiss dies allowed me to neck size my brass.......each and every one of those sized aprox half of the body while trying to size aprox 1/2 of the neck. no other rifle caliber that i neck size for has this issue.
the redding k31 die allows me to neck size my brass aprox 2/3 of the neck....without resizing the body.
that is what i wanted...plain and simple. i see no need to work the brass more than is necessary to chamber....
thats alll
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
In Italy we find costly ,but superb Norma brass,Cheaper,but presently unavailable portuguese brass,and even primed GI swiss brass.It was used once,being berdan primed by a friend in a Swiss sturmgewehr 56,a brass ruining rifle.
I have Lee dies ,Full lenght and collet sizer,use cast bullets and prudent loads of Vihtavuori 135 vith jacketed bullets.
Never had any problem with such components.
Last edited by giorgio; 02-04-2010 at 05:47 AM. Reason: printing error
I've got 20 PRVI cases that have each been shot 5 times; reloaded with the LEE 7.5 Swiss FL dies. I did trim them, but only after they were shot 5 times, and didn't find it excessive at all. (some of the batches were boolits, others were FMJ)
I also converted a dozen GP11 brass to take boxer primers - no problems with them using the LEE dies either.
I admire the loyalty of the Redding for K31 advocates, but almost nothing shoots as well in a K31 as GP-11, and that chambers just fine in K11's.
I just haven't seen a compelling reason to shelve the Lee dies. If I want or need that level of chamber fit, fire them once and neck size from then on.
the problem is...YOU CANNOT NECK SIZE FOR A K31 WITH A LEE 7.5X55 FL DIE....the die hits the body long before you get 1/2 of the neck done.
oh welllllll
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
Quote from Mike's answer to my earlier question:
"Answer: K31 is a different chamber, and as such has a different full lenght sizer die, which when backed out a turn or so does a great neck sizing."
Mike, Could this be causing some confusion about full length resizing. I find that Redding has both full length K-31 size dies and neck size only K-31 size dies, as well as a set that includes both size dies.
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...*702***8344***
I assume that you were referring to the Redding full length size die in your 1st answer but can I assume a K-31, as opposed to a 7.5X55, full length size die will resize more than half or all of the neck before contacting the body of the case?
I hope I have stated this correctly. I have rewritten this post several times to try to state my question clearly.
I am probably going to order the Redding K-31 neck size die since I have the other two die sets which should do fine if I acquire a 1911 Schmidt Rubin.
John
W.TN
you can NECK size k31 brass with REDDING K31 FULL LENGTH sizing die.........you cannot neck size k31 brass with a full length 7.5x55 die from rcbs, lyman or lee.
yes i think you said it correctly, but why buy the neck die.....unless you have some unique requirement to size the entire neck.......2/3 is typically enough, which the fl k31 die will do(like any other fl die typically will do...308, 30'06 etc).
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
Mike in CO -
I'm not following you... or I'm mis-understanding the thread.
In page 1 someone blames the brass length expansion on not using the Redding dies. I don't think its a valid "solution" to the problem.
[in a dozen or so K31 threads someone says that you have to use the Redding or the world will end. I love Redding dies, but this is just hog-wash. I trace it back to a surplusrifle.com article a few years ago. So what I'm saying is that if you want to match your chamber you would fireform and necksize; otherwise any of the Lee or RCBS FL dies would do the job - giving you something in the parmeters of GP11 - and fit either model.]
On the tangent - I can see it useful to be able to neck size with the Redding FL die, though you could buy the Lee FL and neck for half the cost of the Redding FL - and simply dial the neck sizer out to get your 2/3rds.) Actually - if I necksize my swiss, I'll use my generic Hornady 30 cal neck sizer - I've had great luck with that.
Geez this is a confusing thread!! Here are my experiences:
I have two sets of dies: A Lee collet neck sizer and seater, and an RCBS FL die and seater. I size with the Lee collet and seat with the RCBS. Tomorrow will mark the 1 year anniversary of my delving into High Power shooting which I have shot solely with a K-31. I shoot a very light load and of the 90 cases I haved used for competition over the last 12 months, I have lost exactly two cases, both of them to split necks. I have yet to trim a single case since the initial trimming and have yet to FL size any of the cases.
My normal procedure with new brass is to first trim all the brass to the same length. I never, ever use new brass without first trimming it. Next I load it so that whatever bullet I'm using is firmly into the rifling when the round is chambered. That way after the first firing, that brass all fits that chamber perfectly. When it becomes does become necessary to FL size, such as when I fire heavy loads with jacketed bullets, I use a method described in Handloader Magazine by John Barsness. Here is an excerpt of that article from an internet site:
"....In making straight ammo, there are better tools and methods than the average neck-sizing die. All the full-length dies I've tried in the past decade size cases straight, but more often than not, the expander ball pulls the neck crooked. Sometimes this is because the "ball" (actually a cylinder of some sort) is mounted crooked on the decapping pin. Expander-ball/decapping-pin straightness can be measured with a concentricity gauge, and corrected with the judicious use of pliers.
Sometimes, however, even a straight expander ball pulls necks crooked. The only solution I've found is to unscrew the expander, fully size the case, then screw the expander assembly back in the die and "push" it into the neck of the sized case. For some reason, this almost always results in straighter necks."
We've all seen necks "pulled" longer when the expander ball exits the neck. The above described method all but eliminates this. The article in its entirety can be found in one of the 2006 (IIRC) issues of Handloader and is one of the best article on handloading I've ever read and goes into much kore detail than the above excerpt.
35W
The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions.
There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand.
NRA Life Member
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