Bad LP primers

[BD]

Sorry to repeat a post, but this applies to several primer threads concurently. The below is correspondence between myself and CCI concerning a funky lot of CCI LP primers back in 2007.
I was a little disappointed to hear that primers i had to crush to seat flush were within spec. CCI can have QC issues the same as anyone else. It doesn't mean that they're not a good company.
BD

RE: cci-ammunition.com - Ask CCI
...
Thu, April 26, 2007 8:01:00 PM
From:
William Dallam <w_dallam@yahoo.com> [Chat now]
...
View Contact
To: cciexpert <cciexpert@ATK.com>
Coy,
I am measuring with a digital caliper as the blade on my blade mic is not thin enough to get between the legs of an assembled primer. I should probably pull a few apart and measure them with the blade mic. Irregardless of the actual measurement, my lot #JO5H CCI primers will seat OK, My Winchester primers will seat OK and this week I bought 1,000 Federal Large Pistol primers and they seat OK. Unfortunately the CCI lot # DO8M will not seat flush unless I crush them. I've been at this awhile, honest. My .45 acp range brass is mixed. I looked at a box of fifty tonight and there's 12 different headstamps in that box and they all have CCI lot #JO5H primers seated in them just fine. I'll let you know what I find when I pull the anvils out of a few and get good measurements.
Bill Dallam

cciexpert <cciexpert@ATK.com> wrote:

Bill: the measurement of the cup (between the anvil legs) should be 0.112" +/- 0.004, if you have measured correctly at 0.1115" the primer cup is in-spec. The assembled height (bottom of cup to top of anvil) should measure 0.117" to 0.125" to meet Industry Standard. It would appear that the primers meet Industry Specification, check the primer pockets for size, they should be 0.117" to 0.123" deep. Also, check for burrs on the primer insertion portion of the press.
Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
(800) 627-3640
CCI/Speer Technical Coordinator

[deltaenterprizes]

Sorry to repeat a post, but this applies to several primer threads concurently. The below is correspondence between myself and CCI concerning a funky lot of CCI LP primers back in 2007.
I was a little disappointed to hear that primers i had to crush to seat flush were within spec. CCI can have QC issues the same as anyone else. It doesn't mean that they're not a good company.
BD

RE: cci-ammunition.com - Ask CCI
...
Thu, April 26, 2007 8:01:00 PM
From:
William Dallam <w_dallam@yahoo.com> [Chat now]
...
View Contact
To: cciexpert <cciexpert@ATK.com>
Coy,
I am measuring with a digital caliper as the blade on my blade mic is not thin enough to get between the legs of an assembled primer. I should probably pull a few apart and measure them with the blade mic. Irregardless of the actual measurement, my lot #JO5H CCI primers will seat OK, My Winchester primers will seat OK and this week I bought 1,000 Federal Large Pistol primers and they seat OK. Unfortunately the CCI lot # DO8M will not seat flush unless I crush them. I've been at this awhile, honest. My .45 acp range brass is mixed. I looked at a box of fifty tonight and there's 12 different headstamps in that box and they all have CCI lot #JO5H primers seated in them just fine. I'll let you know what I find when I pull the anvils out of a few and get good measurements.
Bill Dallam

cciexpert <cciexpert@ATK.com> wrote:

Bill: the measurement of the cup (between the anvil legs) should be 0.112" +/- 0.004, if you have measured correctly at 0.1115" the primer cup is in-spec. The assembled height (bottom of cup to top of anvil) should measure 0.117" to 0.125" to meet Industry Standard. It would appear that the primers meet Industry Specification, check the primer pockets for size, they should be 0.117" to 0.123" deep. Also, check for burrs on the primer insertion portion of the press.
Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
(800) 627-3640
CCI/Speer Technical Coordinator

Sounds like you could have LARGE RIFLE primers, try one in a rifle case and see if it seats properly.

[beanflip]

One thing to remember is any thing that is built by us humans can and will produce items that aren't to what we expect. That is why there are phone #s so we can call and lot #s so the items can be traced to the problem.

Just my 2¢ worth and just think I could be wrong.

back to the reloading bench

[SHORTY 1919 TODD]

1st, My Dad visited me last summer and brought some CCI primers that I had bought in 1984, and stored in a wooden chest in humid Kansas. I loaded them up in .357 cases and all shot great out of a 686 Smith.

That said I purposely use small rifle primers in my 9mm loads for safety in my open bolt NFA registered subguns. A soft cup can detonate the cartridge out of battery because that type of gun uses a fixed firing pin. So hard rifle primers are cheaper than MIL SPEC. so that is what I use and never fails. Note subguns handle more pressure and rifle primers have a hotter flash to ignite slower powder so use this info for your acedemic purposes.......If you use rifle primers work up.

[felix]

The 1982-1985 CCI lots were/are excellent, and has nothing to do with the current problems. CCI and Federal, specifically the latter, HAD to undergo a cup change to use a different material to pass a different specification, and I suppose that was military oriented, but not stated specifically. That was from communication I had about four years ago now, and reported here by me. I cannot find the emails back and forth. ... felix

[mike in co]

I believe it was Mike in CO who also said in a most rude and recent post that roll crimping a straightwall case that headspaces on its mouth cannot affect headspace of said cartridge, but that is another story. I do not know why some individuals choose to respond to posts in such ill-mannered fashion such as this thread reveals, but perhaps if it is publically called to attention that may dissuade it.

well because you are 100% wrong in your statement. i neve made such a cliam,
and your description of headspace is wrong. headspace is a characteristic of a guns chamber, not of ammunition.

that would be clearance, not headspace.

but with all that blackpowder smoke in your eyes you may have an excuse.

yes people should not responed to your poor posts.

mike in co

[Down South]

If you are going to pull them apart you could "dry fire" them

That's not a good idea if they are dry fired in a revolver. It could lock the cylinder up. Primers will back out of a case without a powder charge and boolit seated. Don't ask me how I know.

[Tippet]

wow. this thread stopped being fun somewhere over the rocky mountains. Unsubscribing to the thread now. Play nice my brothers.

[mike in co]

I load for myself and my son for IDPA shooting. I had loaded up 20 rounds for accuracy testing. I normally use Winchester primers, but open a new brick of CCI primers that my son had purchased about one month ago. He purchased two bricks of 2000 primers that may have defective primers in the intire batch.
While testing the new rounds, I got 12 misfires out of 20 rounds. The primers showed good indention and they also failed to fire on a second try. I have not pulled the shells apart yet to check the primers. The bad part of this, I had used the same brick to load up 600 rounds of match ammo for my son prior to loading these 20 rounds for testing in another gun.
Has anyone else been incountering problems with CCI primers. I have never in 30 years of loading incountered this amount of misfires out of a box of primers. I tested the gun with another load with Winchester primers and no misfires.
I know that CCI has a rep for hard cup metal, but the primer indention was good and not caused by a light firing pin hit or a high primer.

so why do i have an attitude over this post ?

because the guy says "may have defective primers in the intire batch.", but he has not talked to the manufacturer. he is out on a public forum claiming a 60% failure rate of cci lp primers.

thats why.

if you have an issue with a product, go to the maker, and ask. then if, and only if, after discussing with the maker, things are not resolved, then go public. airing an issue like this is just plain rude.

publish:
where they were purchased
lot number
and when they were purchased.
way too many variables to whine without asking the maker first.

mike in co

[Tippet]

ugh. Forgot to hit the unsub link. Won't forget that now.

[grages]

I have only been a member of this forum for 6 months, But I might have asked the same question if I had a 60% failure rate. I would ask it here to get feedback, the groups opinion, which is what he does when he says

Has anyone else been incountering problems with CCI primers.

Only he put a period rather than a question mark, but clearly it is a question.

And he has received many different answers.

In the end he will probably need to talk to the manufacturer, but if there had been a well known defect there is a good chance that knowledgeable people here might have known about it.

[mike in co]

I have only been a member of this forum for 6 months, But I might have asked the same question if I had a 60% failure rate. I would ask it here to get feedback, the groups opinion, which is what he does when he says
Only he put a period rather than a question mark, but clearly it is a question.

And he has received many different answers.

In the end he will probably need to talk to the manufacturer, but if there had been a well known defect there is a good chance that knowledgeable people here might have known about it.

like the manufacture..one phone call ...google is your friend

and i migh have taken your position if he hadn't said"may have defective primers in the intire batch"...but he did...so i stand by my story.

no need to ask us when the maker is so close.

[wiljen]

I think asking us is perfectly legit. Manufacturers rely on feedback from people like us to help find problems.


If this cant be kept to a civil tone, I'm going to lock it and whatever thread it migrates to next. I've now said it twice. Don't make me resort to individual warnings.

[BOOM BOOM]

hi,
I have had an occasional bad primer. but very few in the last 30+ years of reloading. I have also had bad factory rounds. most reloads problems were probibly my fault. And % has been very, very low in both cases.

[Maven]

All, Here's a copy of an e-mail from CCI that I received earlier today. Note the change in telephone number and the availability of Mr. Getman:

Thank you for your email.

CCI #34 primers, Lot E19C were manufactured in May of 1997. We do not
have any prior reports of problems on this lot in our database records.

The best suggestion I can make at this time (our technician is out until
Jan 4th) is to call our Technical line on or after Jan 4th and discuss
with him. Technical Services 1-866-286-7436 (Coy Getman) Linda

Linda Olin
CCI/Speer Technical Services
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501

[1874Sharps]

Oh, by the way, speaking of CCI and contacts by phone and email, I dropped them an email about two weeks back or so and proposed that they consider coming out with a run of Berdan primers so that reloaders can reload some of that old foreign milsurp ammo. Linda Olin said that she would forward that idea on. I hope CCI and other makers will do this.

[mike in co]

Oh, by the way, speaking of CCI and contacts by phone and email, I dropped them an email about two weeks back or so and proposed that they consider coming out with a run of Berdan primers so that reloaders can reload some of that old foreign milsurp ammo. Linda Olin said that she would forward that idea on. I hope CCI and other makers will do this.

wolf makes them..just need to convince($$$$) someone to bring them in.....
i have a sleeve of lr.......they were only $120 delivered...ouch don't you wish ...

mike in co

[500bfrman]

primers are one of the most consistant products in our field.

really? where are they at?

[mike in co]

really? where are they at?

are you asking where primers are at ?
if so the gun show in at the merchandise mart(i25 and 58th) tanner, will have nearly every make and size. one of my customers is a componnent/ammo seller and has just recieved a lagre shipment of primers.

mike in co

[gasboffer]

I don't remember seeing so many "experts" on a subject in one thread since I started reading this forum.
All the original poster asked was about CCI primers failing to ignite. Look at all the advice about revolvers, his loading technique, and all the other subjects not at all related to the original question.
How about limiting replies to your personal experience and not something you have heard from a friend of a friend, or read on the internet?
Sorry for the rant.
Clyde