First cartridge, how'd I do? (45-70 gvt) - Page 2

thecrazedorganist · 11-08-2009, 01:00 AM

Well, it looks like I have indeed created a grenade. My wife's digital kitchen scale gave me a weight of 3 grams, which ought to work its way out to about 46 grains by weight (assuming that one gram=15.432 grains). I just ponied up for a decent grain-weight scale from Midway. I'll double check the load when it arrives, but I can't imagine that my wife's scale is too poorly calibrated.

Just want to stress that I didn't weigh the charge to begin with because of a faulty assumption that Blackhorn's claim of volume equivalency meant pressure equivalency too. The advice concerning loading real BP I've read elsewhere has simply been "fill that case up and don't worry!" This was not an effort to cut corners!

dubber123 · 11-08-2009, 05:09 AM

Save that one for weighing on your grains scale, Vs. just using another Volumetric charge. I was always suspect of how accurate a powder measured charge could be. 8 grains over the book charge might still produce safe pressures for your Marlin, but as Don stated, without knowing how compression affects this powder, you are safer starting over. Good luck.

cajun shooter · 11-08-2009, 08:02 AM

1874 Sharps, I don't see a single post on this by any member that was intended to do harm. If you have a problem with some one why not take it up with the person and not use it to post innuendos at every chance you have. The PC is a wonderful and helpful tool if used in the correct manner. This member came asking for help and he received it. This forum is one of the best on the internet and all new members should not be given ideas about any other members.

Don McDowell · 11-08-2009, 08:31 AM

TCO, its a perfectly understandable assumption. However not all of the so called bp substitute powders are created equal. All but pyrodex is a modified smokeless powder, Pyrodex is a chemically treated blackpowder and can be used and abused exactly like bp, compression and all......
Just for future reference should you try 777 powder Hogdons specifically recommends no compression.

martinibelgian · 11-08-2009, 11:01 AM

Don,
Seems like 777 is more or less whatever stated, except when you go to larger-capacity cases (like 577-450 etc.), when it starts to develop higher pressures: it definitely is more powerful than BP - and also has some corrosive effects on brass - but then, I've read reports of the corrosive nature of most all of the BP subs, most of it seems worse than real BP...

Don McDowell · 11-08-2009, 12:00 PM

I've yet to get anything of worthy mention from 777 in a cartridge gun except for humongous clouds of smoke.
I'm running a test on some cases fired with 777 right now just to see how bad or how soon the residue will corrode cases.
App does little to impress other than those big clouds of smoke also.

1874Sharps · 11-08-2009, 05:39 PM

CrazedOrganist,

The weight of the powder charge you report as 3 grams is what is called in science "one significant figure". This means that the highest degree of confidence you can get from one significant figure after you convert grams to grains is also one significant figure. That is to say, the converted figure would be 5X10 to the first power grains. I am not trying to persuade you that your powder charge is not high, but rather I am suggesting that the scale you measured it on is not nearly precise enough to give meaningful data. I really recommend that you contact the powder manufacturer before you proceed to take your loaded round(s) apart. It may be that there is no problem.

CajunShooter,

I do not wish to get into a "contesta urina" with you and I do not think others log onto this forum for that (will someone second that?!!!), but you are becoming the best witness against yourself. That is all I am going to say. You can always PM me if you have something you think I need to know.

montana_charlie · 11-08-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1874Sharps

I do not wish to get into a "contesta urina" with you and I do not think others log onto this forum for that (will someone second that?!!!),

Aw...I dunno.
Some days it really fits my mood to go berserk over trivia, or to climb down somebody's throat for expressing an overabundance of something I don't agree with...on that particular day.

Why, I can get so infatuated with my own self-righteousnsess it might take me days to discover what I actually said. Then I find out that eleven guys are mad as wet hens at me, and I have to be real humble for a couple of weeks before they'll even talk to me again.

Don was the first who sorta 'barked' at our o/p, and Cajun Shooter kinda backed him up on that. As a matter of fact, I was writing a very similar 'warning' post when I belatedly realized things may not be as bad as they seem.

But, I think everybody was able to readjust to reality without any hard feelings, making the 'curmudgeon alert' rather unnecessary...unless that was a thrown gauntlet that you wanted somebody to pick up.

CM

condorjohn · 11-08-2009, 08:43 PM

Dudes,
We're talking cast boolits, not psycology...

thecrazedorganist · 11-08-2009, 10:33 PM

Oh heck guys, I can sort through the ad hominem stuff (though on a bad day I'd probably snap right back. Such is human nature) so don't worry about that. I'm here because of the information that people have to offer.

cajun shooter · 11-09-2009, 07:28 AM

And that is well put Organist and the way it should be. Help only. Problems taken somewhere else as this is for fun and enjoyment. Welcome to the forum, I hope you have fun with it.

11-08-2009, 08:02 AM	#23
cajun shooter Black Powder 100% Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Livingston, La. 20 miles east of Baton Rouge, La. Posts: 1,300	1874 Sharps, I don't see a single post on this by any member that was intended to do harm. If you have a problem with some one why not take it up with the person and not use it to post innuendos at every chance you have. The PC is a wonderful and helpful tool if used in the correct manner. This member came asking for help and he received it. This forum is one of the best on the internet and all new members should not be given ideas about any other members. __________________ Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81805; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Border Vigliante; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat

11-08-2009, 08:31 AM	#24
Don McDowell Boolit Master Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hell Gap Wy Posts: 659	TCO, its a perfectly understandable assumption. However not all of the so called bp substitute powders are created equal. All but pyrodex is a modified smokeless powder, Pyrodex is a chemically treated blackpowder and can be used and abused exactly like bp, compression and all...... Just for future reference should you try 777 powder Hogdons specifically recommends no compression. __________________ GUSA #6

11-08-2009, 12:00 PM	#26
Don McDowell Boolit Master Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Hell Gap Wy Posts: 659	I've yet to get anything of worthy mention from 777 in a cartridge gun except for humongous clouds of smoke. I'm running a test on some cases fired with 777 right now just to see how bad or how soon the residue will corrode cases. App does little to impress other than those big clouds of smoke also. __________________ GUSA #6 Last edited by Don McDowell; 11-08-2009 at 12:16 PM.

11-09-2009, 07:28 AM	#31
cajun shooter Black Powder 100% Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Livingston, La. 20 miles east of Baton Rouge, La. Posts: 1,300	And that is well put Organist and the way it should be. Help only. Problems taken somewhere else as this is for fun and enjoyment. Welcome to the forum, I hope you have fun with it. __________________ Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81805; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Border Vigliante; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat

11-08-2009, 01:00 AM	#21
thecrazedorganist Boolit Mold Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6	Well, it looks like I have indeed created a grenade. My wife's digital kitchen scale gave me a weight of 3 grams, which ought to work its way out to about 46 grains by weight (assuming that one gram=15.432 grains). I just ponied up for a decent grain-weight scale from Midway. I'll double check the load when it arrives, but I can't imagine that my wife's scale is too poorly calibrated. Just want to stress that I didn't weigh the charge to begin with because of a faulty assumption that Blackhorn's claim of volume equivalency meant pressure equivalency too. The advice concerning loading real BP I've read elsewhere has simply been "fill that case up and don't worry!" This was not an effort to cut corners!

11-08-2009, 05:09 AM	#22
dubber123 Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The deep south,... of Vermont! Posts: 2,164	Save that one for weighing on your grains scale, Vs. just using another Volumetric charge. I was always suspect of how accurate a powder measured charge could be. 8 grains over the book charge might still produce safe pressures for your Marlin, but as Don stated, without knowing how compression affects this powder, you are safer starting over. Good luck.

11-08-2009, 11:01 AM	#25
martinibelgian Boolit Master Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 199	Don, Seems like 777 is more or less whatever stated, except when you go to larger-capacity cases (like 577-450 etc.), when it starts to develop higher pressures: it definitely is more powerful than BP - and also has some corrosive effects on brass - but then, I've read reports of the corrosive nature of most all of the BP subs, most of it seems worse than real BP...

11-08-2009, 05:39 PM	#27
1874Sharps Boolit Master Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 234	CrazedOrganist, The weight of the powder charge you report as 3 grams is what is called in science "one significant figure". This means that the highest degree of confidence you can get from one significant figure after you convert grams to grains is also one significant figure. That is to say, the converted figure would be 5X10 to the first power grains. I am not trying to persuade you that your powder charge is not high, but rather I am suggesting that the scale you measured it on is not nearly precise enough to give meaningful data. I really recommend that you contact the powder manufacturer before you proceed to take your loaded round(s) apart. It may be that there is no problem. CajunShooter, I do not wish to get into a "contesta urina" with you and I do not think others log onto this forum for that (will someone second that?!!!), but you are becoming the best witness against yourself. That is all I am going to say. You can always PM me if you have something you think I need to know.

11-08-2009, 08:43 PM	#29
condorjohn Boolit Bub Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22	Dudes, We're talking cast boolits, not psycology...

11-08-2009, 10:33 PM	#30
thecrazedorganist Boolit Mold Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6	Oh heck guys, I can sort through the ad hominem stuff (though on a bad day I'd probably snap right back. Such is human nature) so don't worry about that. I'm here because of the information that people have to offer.