Whats wrong? - Page 2

StarMetal · 10-31-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geargnasher

++1 MtGun. Bullplate or a good silicone die lube are as essential as handles on Lee moulds to make them cast.

Starmetal Joe, I know this is supposed to be fun, and it is when the tools one uses work anywhere near the way they are supposed to. I've almost completely sworn off of Lee moulds (all I have ever used are 2-cavity) because they are such junk. I can't count the hours I've spent with a lens and scribe and fresh razor blade detailing the blocks until they work, taking out the sprueplate screw, blocking the plate and bevelling the closing edge, drilling and tapping for the sprueplate pivot screw setbolt and piece of #6 shot, blocking the top of the blocks, peening the hinge pin, polishing the alignment pin cavities, etc, and then lapping the cavities with Bon Ami and water until they actually drop boolits instead of having to beat them out with a hickory mallet. Then they still have to be fiddled with to get them to close properly when casting. Maybe I just have terrible luck with them, most of the ones I have are less than 2 years old. When I am patient they make really good boolits, but give me iron or steel or brass any day and I am much happier.

Gear

I know your feelings. I've been more lucky. What keeps me buying them is that some of them I have are so dang accurate out of my rifles.

Joe

TAWILDCATT · 10-31-2009, 08:49 PM

I have about 20 molds some 2 cavity.I found that turning it over will align the blocks to close.I have never had a bad mold and funny I dont measure them much of any.just to see that they are big enuf. but then I was a machinist for 60 ys.
they will size in the barrel.and lead being soft does not build up pressure.and as long as the size is bigger than the barrel they will straiten out.the best way to get a good mold is to spend much money on them.they may not be any better but the buyer will think he has a better product.I am trying to get a price on a 4 cavity
lyman moldwith handles I have 38 wc-dewc,and the 45 avp H&G 68 stlye SWC.
what do they go for used but perfect???

troy7769 · 10-31-2009, 09:47 PM

Gentlemen, I owe each and every one of you a cup of coffee, at least. You have blessed me with your expertise on this subjec,t and have saved me lots of hair. I just cast over 300 boolits and all of them came out .401-.403. HEAT was good to me. My melt got really hot a couple of times and i think the tin floated to the top, not sure what it was, it glowed red hot, I had to cool it off to get it to flux back in. Was it TO hot?
Thank you, Troy

troy7769 · 10-31-2009, 09:54 PM

MtGun : thanks, I have been planing on ordering some but I got my mold and pot so fast i could not wait to start casting, and have forgot to order.
Thanks for the reminder, Troy

waksupi · 10-31-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy7769

Gentlemen, I owe each and every one of you a cup of coffee, at least. You have blessed me with your expertise on this subjec,t and have saved me lots of hair. I just cast over 300 boolits and all of them came out .401-.403. HEAT was good to me. My melt got really hot a couple of times and i think the tin floated to the top, not sure what it was, it glowed red hot, I had to cool it off to get it to flux back in. Was it TO hot?
Thank you, Troy

Troy, if it was red hot, it was WAYYYYY too hot! Up to the level it could out-gas. What is your heat source? If it is a Lee, it shouldn't be able to get that hot. Got a thermometer?

HeavyMetal · 10-31-2009, 11:06 PM

You've got to be using some type of gas or propane stove to get that hot!

If you haven't invested in a thermometer do so at the first chance you get. Such a tool, particularly in the early learning stage of casting, is invaluable!

Glad you got your problem sorted out now your next step will be stablzing your heat source.

in less than a month you'll be casting as good as the rest of us.

troy7769 · 10-31-2009, 11:37 PM

I'm using a Lee production pot IV set on 8-9 , no thermometer. After i Fluxed it back in, there was alot of dross that i had to get off, that might have been what was glowing red, ya think? Sorry but I just thought of this. Also if it was the tin, would it have burned enough of it that i may need to add some more? BTW they all weighed out very close to eachother 171 gr. +/- .5 gr., do i need to add some pure lead? Or would ya'll just load them as is accounting for the 4gr loss?
thanks, Troy

Slow Elk 45/70 · 11-01-2009, 12:31 AM

Welcome Troy, if your casting over 750-800 degrees, you are way tooooo hot....and yes you are throwing away your mix.... you need to back off or buy a thermometer...good luck

mooman76 · 11-01-2009, 06:21 AM

Also take a look at your mould when you close it and make sure it's closed all the way. If you hold it up to the light you shouldn't see light through it. Not closing just a hair will make one side thicker than the other. A small tap with whatever you use to cut the sprue will do it or some place the mould on a flat surface to close even usually does the trick. These things seem like allot but after awhile it becomes second nature.

semtav · 11-01-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waksupi

Troy, if it was red hot, it was WAYYYYY too hot! Up to the level it could out-gas. What is your heat source? If it is a Lee, it shouldn't be able to get that hot. Got a thermometer?

that little Lee pot will turn the lead red hot if you run it in the 7-8 with less than 1/2 pot full. I have to keep mine at 6 or under to keep it from turning red.

243winxb · 11-01-2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

pure WW, nothing added BTW they all weighed out very close to eachother 171 gr. +/- .5 gr., do i need to add some pure lead? Or would ya'll just load them as is accounting for the 4gr loss?

The weight of the bullet is not important, diameter is. If you add pure lead, the bullet will become more heavy and smaller in diameter. Antimony is what makes the bullet larger and harder. Tin keeps air cooed bullets from leading. After sizing,shoot as is,

USARO4 · 11-01-2009, 08:13 AM

Troy, welcome to the forum. You are running your Lee pot way to hot. I turn mine up all the way until temp is 700, flux, turn pot down to 5 on the control and when it reaches 750 turn it down to 3 or 4 to maintain temp. It seems that the lower the lead level (in the pot) is the lower control needs to be. When you add lead turn it back up. I dont know what thermometers sell for now days , but my 10 year old Lyman cost $30 and is still running strong.

TAWILDCATT · 11-01-2009, 11:14 AM

I bought a harbor freight speed control they go for $14.95.you still need a themometer.the unit plugs in line and regulates the voltage which also helps the longativity.

atr · 11-02-2009, 05:25 PM

TROY....
just as a comparison,,,I cast some #311413 30 cal yesterday and this was the variation in measured (micrometer) diameter. This was from a 60's vintage Lyman Mold.

first 10 cast......0.3125-0.3130 (0.0005 variation)
last 10 cast......same as above
(out of 60total)

when possible I try to reduce the cast diameter as little as possible in the sizing process. When you size you are basically "swaging". Too much swaging is not generally recommended. (I assure you that there are lots of opinons on this subject.)

Dale53 · 11-02-2009, 06:38 PM

Lee two cavity moulds benefit GREATLY from lubing the alignment surfaces with Bullshop Sprueplate lube as stated above - believe it!

Lee's six cavity moulds are far superior to their two cavity moulds.

However, you CAN do good work with the two cavity moulds IF you lubricate the alignment surfaces...

I have probably 70 moulds from some of the greatest mould makers ever
and some of the least expensive (Lee). I treasure a good mould (some of my best are H&G, MiHec, and NOE and some custom moulds for precision target rifles). I have a couple of Lee two cavity moulds the produce a 340 gr bullet that shoots in 1½" at 100 yards from my Marlin 1895 45/70. THAT is NOT junk...

Dale53

troy7769 · 11-03-2009, 12:07 PM

Thanks guys, not that i have it down or anything, but I did cast 1000 boolits last night at work and they all turned out .400-.403. To me thats ALOT better than what i was casting. I think that these will shoot fine. I did not water drop, ran the pot at about 4-5 on the dial. and kept the mold pretty hot. I did pick up a thermometer today, its a deep frier kind and goes up to 750. Will this work? I hope so, 10 bucks! oh and I landed around 200 lbs. of wheel weights this morn. at .15 lb. thats good around here. The guy at the tire store was really harping on the fact that lead is not going to be used anymore, acording to him the WW mans. have stoped making them as of not long ago. His words, not sure how reliable this is.

Crash Corrigan · 11-03-2009, 02:37 PM

Along with the info provided above I cannot stress enough the use of Bullshops' Bull Sprue Plate Lube.

Also after you remove the boolits from the mold place the mold on a thin piece of aluminum attached to a 2 x 4 under the casting pot. Make sure that the mold is completly closed and the bottom of the mold is even on the surface of the metal plate. This ensures that the mold is completly closed and even on the bottom

I have been using Lee molds for 15 years and I found prevents many problems and is a part of my casting routine. I do not even think about it any more. I just do it like I do have to think about breathing.

243winxb · 11-03-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

they all turned out .400-.403.

Thats more like it, good job, and on company time too. I have never used a thermometer, hope it works for youl.

sqlbullet · 11-04-2009, 08:21 AM

I love having a thermometer. I can return to a known melt temp and mold temp(using my infrared handheld on the mold) for the first cast, and get good bullets right from the start.

You can cast fine bullets without one, but for me, it is a great addition.

For the temps I run, a therm that went to 750° would be fine. You usually don't want the lead over that anyway.

mdi · 11-04-2009, 08:48 AM

Another small tidbit; using a standard 1" micrometer is more accurate than using calipers (please, I'm not starting a fight, just info I gleaned from a few years as a machine operator). I believe it is the narrow jaws of the caliper and the sliding pressures, holding the slug properly, etc. So much easier to get accurate measurements with a micrometer.

10-31-2009, 08:49 PM	#22
TAWILDCATT Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 1,424	lee molds I have about 20 molds some 2 cavity.I found that turning it over will align the blocks to close.I have never had a bad mold and funny I dont measure them much of any.just to see that they are big enuf. but then I was a machinist for 60 ys. they will size in the barrel.and lead being soft does not build up pressure.and as long as the size is bigger than the barrel they will straiten out.the best way to get a good mold is to spend much money on them.they may not be any better but the buyer will think he has a better product.I am trying to get a price on a 4 cavity lyman moldwith handles I have 38 wc-dewc,and the 45 avp H&G 68 stlye SWC. what do they go for used but perfect??? __________________ WILDCATT

11-01-2009, 12:31 AM	#28
Slow Elk 45/70 Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Clear, AK Posts: 1,060	Welcome Troy, if your casting over 750-800 degrees, you are way tooooo hot....and yes you are throwing away your mix.... you need to back off or buy a thermometer...good luck __________________ Slow Elk 45/70 Praise the Lord & Pass the Ammo

11-01-2009, 06:21 AM	#29
mooman76 Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: N. Las Vegas, NV Posts: 2,534	Also take a look at your mould when you close it and make sure it's closed all the way. If you hold it up to the light you shouldn't see light through it. Not closing just a hair will make one side thicker than the other. A small tap with whatever you use to cut the sprue will do it or some place the mould on a flat surface to close even usually does the trick. These things seem like allot but after awhile it becomes second nature. __________________ Aim small, miss small!

11-01-2009, 11:14 AM	#33
TAWILDCATT Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 1,424	Melt I bought a harbor freight speed control they go for $14.95.you still need a themometer.the unit plugs in line and regulates the voltage which also helps the longativity. __________________ WILDCATT

11-03-2009, 02:37 PM	#37
Crash Corrigan Boolit Master Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 608	Along with the info provided above I cannot stress enough the use of Bullshops' Bull Sprue Plate Lube. Also after you remove the boolits from the mold place the mold on a thin piece of aluminum attached to a 2 x 4 under the casting pot. Make sure that the mold is completly closed and the bottom of the mold is even on the surface of the metal plate. This ensures that the mold is completly closed and even on the bottom I have been using Lee molds for 15 years and I found prevents many problems and is a part of my casting routine. I do not even think about it any more. I just do it like I do have to think about breathing. __________________ Pax Nobiscum Dan (Crash) Corrigan

10-31-2009, 09:47 PM	#23
troy7769 Boolit Bub Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 20	Gentlemen, I owe each and every one of you a cup of coffee, at least. You have blessed me with your expertise on this subjec,t and have saved me lots of hair. I just cast over 300 boolits and all of them came out .401-.403. HEAT was good to me. My melt got really hot a couple of times and i think the tin floated to the top, not sure what it was, it glowed red hot, I had to cool it off to get it to flux back in. Was it TO hot? Thank you, Troy

10-31-2009, 09:54 PM	#24
troy7769 Boolit Bub Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 20	MtGun : thanks, I have been planing on ordering some but I got my mold and pot so fast i could not wait to start casting, and have forgot to order. Thanks for the reminder, Troy

10-31-2009, 11:06 PM	#26
HeavyMetal Boolit Master Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orange county, Ca. Posts: 1,777	You've got to be using some type of gas or propane stove to get that hot! If you haven't invested in a thermometer do so at the first chance you get. Such a tool, particularly in the early learning stage of casting, is invaluable! Glad you got your problem sorted out now your next step will be stablzing your heat source. in less than a month you'll be casting as good as the rest of us.

10-31-2009, 11:37 PM	#27
troy7769 Boolit Bub Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 20	I'm using a Lee production pot IV set on 8-9 , no thermometer. After i Fluxed it back in, there was alot of dross that i had to get off, that might have been what was glowing red, ya think? Sorry but I just thought of this. Also if it was the tin, would it have burned enough of it that i may need to add some more? BTW they all weighed out very close to eachother 171 gr. +/- .5 gr., do i need to add some pure lead? Or would ya'll just load them as is accounting for the 4gr loss? thanks, Troy

11-01-2009, 08:13 AM	#32
USARO4 Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Springfield, TN Posts: 300	Troy, welcome to the forum. You are running your Lee pot way to hot. I turn mine up all the way until temp is 700, flux, turn pot down to 5 on the control and when it reaches 750 turn it down to 3 or 4 to maintain temp. It seems that the lower the lead level (in the pot) is the lower control needs to be. When you add lead turn it back up. I dont know what thermometers sell for now days , but my 10 year old Lyman cost $30 and is still running strong.

11-02-2009, 05:25 PM	#34
atr Boolit Master Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vashon Island WA Posts: 357	TROY.... just as a comparison,,,I cast some #311413 30 cal yesterday and this was the variation in measured (micrometer) diameter. This was from a 60's vintage Lyman Mold. first 10 cast......0.3125-0.3130 (0.0005 variation) last 10 cast......same as above (out of 60total) when possible I try to reduce the cast diameter as little as possible in the sizing process. When you size you are basically "swaging". Too much swaging is not generally recommended. (I assure you that there are lots of opinons on this subject.)

11-02-2009, 06:38 PM	#35
Dale53 Boolit Master Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Southwestern Ohio Posts: 4,504	Lee two cavity moulds benefit GREATLY from lubing the alignment surfaces with Bullshop Sprueplate lube as stated above - believe it! Lee's six cavity moulds are far superior to their two cavity moulds. However, you CAN do good work with the two cavity moulds IF you lubricate the alignment surfaces... I have probably 70 moulds from some of the greatest mould makers ever and some of the least expensive (Lee). I treasure a good mould (some of my best are H&G, MiHec, and NOE and some custom moulds for precision target rifles). I have a couple of Lee two cavity moulds the produce a 340 gr bullet that shoots in 1½" at 100 yards from my Marlin 1895 45/70. THAT is NOT junk... Dale53

11-03-2009, 12:07 PM	#36
troy7769 Boolit Bub Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 20	Thanks guys, not that i have it down or anything, but I did cast 1000 boolits last night at work and they all turned out .400-.403. To me thats ALOT better than what i was casting. I think that these will shoot fine. I did not water drop, ran the pot at about 4-5 on the dial. and kept the mold pretty hot. I did pick up a thermometer today, its a deep frier kind and goes up to 750. Will this work? I hope so, 10 bucks! oh and I landed around 200 lbs. of wheel weights this morn. at .15 lb. thats good around here. The guy at the tire store was really harping on the fact that lead is not going to be used anymore, acording to him the WW mans. have stoped making them as of not long ago. His words, not sure how reliable this is.

11-04-2009, 08:21 AM	#39
sqlbullet Boolit Master Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 202	I love having a thermometer. I can return to a known melt temp and mold temp(using my infrared handheld on the mold) for the first cast, and get good bullets right from the start. You can cast fine bullets without one, but for me, it is a great addition. For the temps I run, a therm that went to 750° would be fine. You usually don't want the lead over that anyway.

11-04-2009, 08:48 AM	#40
mdi Boolit Master Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 156	Another small tidbit; using a standard 1" micrometer is more accurate than using calipers (please, I'm not starting a fight, just info I gleaned from a few years as a machine operator). I believe it is the narrow jaws of the caliper and the sliding pressures, holding the slug properly, etc. So much easier to get accurate measurements with a micrometer.