Beretta Double rifle in 45.70 elko mag

rockrat · 10-24-2009, 03:58 PM

Bought this as a 45-70 double rifle, but it says 45.70 elko mag on the barrel. Wonder if someone rechambered a 45-70. I am going to guess that it is close to a 45-100 instead. Anyone have any info on this cartridge?

snowwolfe · 10-24-2009, 05:35 PM

If anybody can help you these guys can:
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...rm/f/760101804

But I suspect you will have to make a chamber cast to make sure of what you have.

Skipper · 10-24-2009, 07:22 PM

Also, check here:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0

rockrat · 10-24-2009, 09:23 PM

Anybody heard of this caliber? Googled it , but can't find anything

snowwolfe · 10-24-2009, 09:54 PM

Sounds like it could be a double made from a shotgun which is pretty common. If that is the case Elko Mag could be the name of the smith or shop doing the conversion. I'm just guessing here but one thing for certain is a chamber cast is going to be required.

Cap'n Morgan · 10-25-2009, 03:50 AM

Those stampings sure doesn't look like they were made by Beretta, and the proof marks are not Italian either. From the look of the stock & grip the gun could be from the fifties. Any stampings on the receiver?

rockrat · 10-25-2009, 08:58 AM

No, but I did get some information from a Double Rifle site that Elko Arms was an outfit that converted Beretta shotguns to double rifles and there is a Guns article in the Sept '95 issue about the Elko mag cartridge. Chamber length (rough measure) makes me think it is a 45-100, as case length is about 2.6".
See if I can find my cerrosafe this morning (in MY shop, yeah right!!)

Did a chamber cast. Looks like it is a 45-100 Sharps. 2.6" long and .500" base. Chamber was 2.615" long, but that would give a little case stretch room.

snowwolfe · 10-25-2009, 11:28 AM

If you havent played with a double before make sure you get your chrono out. They are a godsend when trying to determine what load the rifle was originally regulated for.

Three44s · 10-25-2009, 07:20 PM

Found this:

http://www.intermin.fi/intermin/images.nsf/files/6D0F8F9F5CE9AD46C2256FBE00302CC4/$file/LAIPPA+II+haku+02.pdf

You'll find it way down towards the end.

Three 44s

rockrat · 10-26-2009, 08:25 AM

Got a copy of the case dimensions. Appears to be nearly identical to the 45-100 Sharps.

It is a standard european caliber

Cap'n Morgan · 10-26-2009, 08:52 AM

CIP lists a Pmax pressure at 2950 bar for this round compared to 2200 bar for the 45-70 gov.

rockrat · 10-26-2009, 11:00 AM

Thanks. Its stamped on the barrels, but hard to tell if it was a 9 or a 0. 42K psi. Should make for some stout loads if I want to go that high

snowwolfe · 10-26-2009, 11:58 AM

Finding the load this rifle was regulated with will be a fun challenge. You may get lucky along the way and find a cast boolit at a reduced velocity that works as well.
Good luck and keep us posted.

rockrat · 11-02-2009, 06:23 PM

Been working with it. Unfortunately, I don't know the factory ammo specs. What gr. bullet at what velocity. Been running 405 remmys at nearly 1900 fps (Ow), but it also likes a 425RD at around 1550fps and that shoots about 1" high @50yds.. Gun isn't very heavy, so I think I will save the heavy loads for hunting.

snowwolfe · 11-02-2009, 11:26 PM

It can be a real art form to find a load that regulates well for a specific double. Small changes in velocity can cause the bullets to either spread further out or come closer together.
Those guys over at the AR forum (double section) can be a wealth of good information. Certain powders work better with certain bullets in different rifles, etc. Also, a chronograph is really needed for best results.
Good luck.

10-24-2009, 03:58 PM	#1
rockrat Boolit Master Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 600	Beretta Double rifle in 45.70 elko mag Bought this as a 45-70 double rifle, but it says 45.70 elko mag on the barrel. Wonder if someone rechambered a 45-70. I am going to guess that it is close to a 45-100 instead. Anyone have any info on this cartridge?

10-25-2009, 03:50 AM	#6
Cap'n Morgan Boolit Master Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 227	Those stampings sure doesn't look like they were made by Beretta, and the proof marks are not Italian either. From the look of the stock & grip the gun could be from the fifties. Any stampings on the receiver? __________________ Cap'n Morgan

10-25-2009, 08:58 AM	#7
rockrat Boolit Master Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 600	No, but I did get some information from a Double Rifle site that Elko Arms was an outfit that converted Beretta shotguns to double rifles and there is a Guns article in the Sept '95 issue about the Elko mag cartridge. Chamber length (rough measure) makes me think it is a 45-100, as case length is about 2.6". See if I can find my cerrosafe this morning (in MY shop, yeah right!!) Did a chamber cast. Looks like it is a 45-100 Sharps. 2.6" long and .500" base. Chamber was 2.615" long, but that would give a little case stretch room. Last edited by rockrat; 10-25-2009 at 10:42 AM. Reason: added data

10-26-2009, 08:52 AM	#11
Cap'n Morgan Boolit Master Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 227	CIP lists a Pmax pressure at 2950 bar for this round compared to 2200 bar for the 45-70 gov. __________________ Cap'n Morgan

10-24-2009, 05:35 PM	#2
snowwolfe Boolit Master Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 152	If anybody can help you these guys can: http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...rm/f/760101804 But I suspect you will have to make a chamber cast to make sure of what you have.

10-24-2009, 07:22 PM	#3
Skipper Boolit Bub Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: CA Posts: 41	Also, check here: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0

10-24-2009, 09:23 PM	#4
rockrat Boolit Master Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 600	Anybody heard of this caliber? Googled it , but can't find anything

10-24-2009, 09:54 PM	#5
snowwolfe Boolit Master Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 152	Sounds like it could be a double made from a shotgun which is pretty common. If that is the case Elko Mag could be the name of the smith or shop doing the conversion. I'm just guessing here but one thing for certain is a chamber cast is going to be required.

10-25-2009, 11:28 AM	#8
snowwolfe Boolit Master Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 152	If you havent played with a double before make sure you get your chrono out. They are a godsend when trying to determine what load the rifle was originally regulated for.

10-25-2009, 07:20 PM	#9
Three44s Boolit Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Yakima, Washington Posts: 712	Found this: http://www.intermin.fi/intermin/images.nsf/files/6D0F8F9F5CE9AD46C2256FBE00302CC4/$file/LAIPPA+II+haku+02.pdf You'll find it way down towards the end. Three 44s

10-26-2009, 08:25 AM	#10
rockrat Boolit Master Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 600	Got a copy of the case dimensions. Appears to be nearly identical to the 45-100 Sharps. It is a standard european caliber

10-26-2009, 11:00 AM	#12
rockrat Boolit Master Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 600	Thanks. Its stamped on the barrels, but hard to tell if it was a 9 or a 0. 42K psi. Should make for some stout loads if I want to go that high

10-26-2009, 11:58 AM	#13
snowwolfe Boolit Master Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 152	Finding the load this rifle was regulated with will be a fun challenge. You may get lucky along the way and find a cast boolit at a reduced velocity that works as well. Good luck and keep us posted.

11-02-2009, 06:23 PM	#14
rockrat Boolit Master Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 600	Been working with it. Unfortunately, I don't know the factory ammo specs. What gr. bullet at what velocity. Been running 405 remmys at nearly 1900 fps (Ow), but it also likes a 425RD at around 1550fps and that shoots about 1" high @50yds.. Gun isn't very heavy, so I think I will save the heavy loads for hunting.

11-02-2009, 11:26 PM	#15
snowwolfe Boolit Master Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 152	It can be a real art form to find a load that regulates well for a specific double. Small changes in velocity can cause the bullets to either spread further out or come closer together. Those guys over at the AR forum (double section) can be a wealth of good information. Certain powders work better with certain bullets in different rifles, etc. Also, a chronograph is really needed for best results. Good luck.