So I just got a thermometer and !!!

[geargnasher]

Nice to see you here in the interest of peace, not stirring [edit], Gear

Not stirring it, I just don't want you to think that it's ok to name-call and insult people who comment on your thread. Nobody here is out to get you, so quit being so defensive and save the drama for the soap scripters.

Gear

[armyrat1970]

It never ceases to amaze me that there are so many so deathly afraid of being poisoned by their lead pot if they run it over some temperature. Folks if you run the lead pot at any reasonable casting temperature (or even well above) you don't have anything to worry about. You won't be suddenly overcome by lead fumes an go blind stupid or suffer any of the other purported consequences. The biggest reason to ventilate is not to remove lead vapors, but to remove smoke from fluxing.

Look at this chart.

Notice that the vapor pressure of lead at 1000F (538C) is less than 0.000001 (probably closer to half that or 0.0000005) atmospheres. What that is saying is that the amount of lead vapor that makes it into the air is miniscule at that temperature. What little does get into the air doesn't go far. You are far and away more likely to get lead poisoning from improper hygiene and ingestion when working with your pot than through inhalation.

Well I know one thing. Many, if not most, of us cast with wws that have high lead content. I know these dropped boolitls can be heat treated for hardness in a convection oven that many have around the house. Lurch, and others that have posted about no concern of lead, don't know if you heat treat ww dropped boolits but if you did, would you use the around the house convection oven that your family prepares food in? Or would you buy another to heat treat your boolits? Really would like to know.

[joeb33050]

I cast bullets for over 40 years without a thermometer. I felt guilty, so I bought one a few years back. Now it sits on the shelf, doing nothing. They're not fun to use, and never told me anything of any importance. Shiny though.
joe b.

[qajaq59]

I cast bullets for over 40 years without a thermometer. I felt guilty, so I bought one a few years back. Now it sits on the shelf, doing nothing. They're not fun to use, and never told me anything of any importance. Shiny though.
joe b.

I bought mine for the casting pot but what I really use it for it to keep the temp right when I'm smelting so I don't have to hand pick out the zinc.

And there's always the "different strokes for different folks" aspect.

And Joe how do you keep yours shiny? Mine looks grungy as all get out.

[thx997303]

I think he doesn't use it.

They sure are shiny when new.

[lurch]

Well I know one thing. Many, if not most, of us cast with wws that have high lead content. I know these dropped boolitls can be heat treated for hardness in a convection oven that many have around the house. Lurch, and others that have posted about no concern of lead, don't know if you heat treat ww dropped boolits but if you did, would you use the around the house convection oven that your family prepares food in? Or would you buy another to heat treat your boolits? Really would like to know.

Well, no I don't heat treat boolits in an oven. I never said I wasn't concerned about lead either, just not concerned about vapors off the pot being something to get all hyped over. Would I use the kitchen oven to treat boolits? Probably not. There is a possibility there for mechanical contact/transfer that while unlikely could allow a small amount of lead to find its way to some food somewhere down the line. Anything that you can do to avoid the possibility of ingestion is a good idea in my opinion. That and The Boss is rather possessive of it. I'm far more concerned about having dross residue on my hands after casting and then going to get a snack...best wash up first.

Look at the vapor issue another way. I work for a large company that does a lot of soldering in the electronics lab. Every year the safety folks come around to make sure the techs aren't using soldering irons that are "too hot". There are actually a couple reasons for this but the one germane here has to do with lead vapors. The standards here are zero lead accumulation for a person with their nose literally inches from the work, 8 hours a day 5 days a week 50 weeks a year for an entire career. What temperature do you have to solder below to be "safe" according to this standard? 800F. How often do you cast at that high of a temperature? How long do you spend smelling the top of the melt? Is it your career? This is my point: At the temperature we typically run the pot and significantly hotter there is no danger presented by lead vapor coming off the pot.

[joeb33050]

I bought mine for the casting pot but what I really use it for it to keep the temp right when I'm smelting so I don't have to hand pick out the zinc.

And there's always the "different strokes for different folks" aspect.

And Joe how do you keep yours shiny? Mine looks grungy as all get out.

I'm pretty much out of the WW game, although I melt big lots of metals together to get a common lot which makes the bullets the same weight and hardness. I shoot rifles and rifle-likle pistols, maybe 5000 a year. Thus, zink isn't a problem for me. I leave my Lee pot on 8, let it heat up for an hour or so, and adjust the temperature knob as needed, if needed. The pot will go to over 800 on the thermometer, my "8" on the dial works for me. I haven't used the thermometer in a year or more. That's my story, and I'm........
joe b.

[vulture47]

Don't mean to butt in or step on anyones toes. Years ago when I first got into casting for my black powder rifles and pistols some of the old boys told me to be careful of the fumes, not necessarily due to "lead fumes" but because when using scarp lead you never know where it's been or what might have been amalgamated into it, on purpose or by accident, especially when fluxing the pot as this was when a lot of these elements might be encouraged to take flight. Don't know if there's any truth to this, or enough truth to cause concern, but I've always tried to be careful, especially when fluxing, not to breath the fumes, just in case.

[armyrat1970]

Don't mean to butt in or step on anyones toes. Years ago when I first got into casting for my black powder rifles and pistols some of the old boys told me to be careful of the fumes, not necessarily due to "lead fumes" but because when using scarp lead you never know where it's been or what might have been amalgamated into it, on purpose or by accident, especially when fluxing the pot as this was when a lot of these elements might be encouraged to take flight. Don't know if there's any truth to this, or enough truth to cause concern, but I've always tried to be careful, especially when fluxing, not to breath the fumes, just in case.

And that's all I'm saying. Maybe no proven facts but why take the chance. Years ago it was said eggs were bad for you. Sugar is bad for you. Caffine is bad for you.
People are now drinking 2% milk because it was said that regular milk that you bought at the store was bad for you. I remember Frosted Flakes that tasted very good to me with the amount of sugar they had. But now the newer Frosted Flakes taste bland. I ate them for years with no problem. Other things also. New ideas. But lead poisoning is not something new and I have not seen anything to disclaim it. If any of you know of any information and a site I can check out post it. And even after I view it I think I will still take precautions. I don't trust doctors and the like either.

[Dale53]

A thermometer is very useful in a couple of ways:

You can freely exchange information as to successful casting temperature with a particular mould and bullet type. It IS important to cast at as low a temperature as possible with a particular bullet alloy and bullet design. Casting at higher temperatures than you need produces more slag and can burn out the alloy constituents unequally leading to bullets with varying weights and sizes (small differences to be sure but large enough to be seen on the target).

One BIG use is to control temp of your "smelt" to keep from ruining your alloy with zinc contamination. I keep my smelting temperature under 650 degrees and the thermometer allows me to easily do this (I have a fish/turkey fryer with a 12" diameter cast iron pot that'll hold about 120 lbs) with the valve on my propane tank.

Dale53

[armyrat1970]

A thermometer is very useful in a couple of ways:

You can freely exchange information as to successful casting temperature with a particular mould and bullet type. It IS important to cast at as low a temperature as possible with a particular bullet alloy and bullet design. Casting at higher temperatures than you need produces more slag and can burn out the alloy constituents unequally leading to bullets with varying weights and sizes (small differences to be sure but large enough to be seen on the target).

One BIG use is to control temp of your "smelt" to keep from ruining your alloy with zinc contamination. I keep my smelting temperature under 650 degrees and the thermometer allows me to easily do this (I have a fish/turkey fryer with a 12" diameter cast iron pot that'll hold about 120 lbs) with the valve on my propane tank.

Dale53

Dale what temps do you usually cast at with wws? I may be running mine to hot, at 880 to 900. But I seem to get good fill out with my Lee aluminum molds with hot molds and higher temps.
I keep my temps around 700 when smelting wws.

[Dale53]

armyrat1970;
I add 2% tin to my WW's and cast at 650-725 degrees, depending on the mould.

A hollow point mould I may run as hot as 750 degrees (I use a softer alloy - WW's/20% pure lead and add 2% tin). These will open up at rather low velocities.
Glen Fryxell has an excellent treatise (actually several good articles on hollow points at: http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm )

I keep my temperatures down at 650 when smelting WW's to keep away from the melting temperatures of Zinc weights (they reportedly melt at 780 degrees). I have NO problem melting WW's at 650 degrees. If for no other reason, Smelting is reason enough for a GOOD thermometer ( I use a Tru-Temp after a bad experience with a Lyman Thermometer).

FWIW

Dale53

[Echo]

I've stopped using the thermometer for rendering. I just start slow, and let the WW's come up to temp slow enough that the zinkies don't have a chance. Can't see going full speed. A heaped dutch oven will be ready for clearing in about 30-40 minutes, and the zinkies are removed with the spring clips. Don't know what temp I end up at, and really don't care.

[MKT]

Last night, as I played catch-up reading due to be prolonged absence (thats to work) I stumbled on this thread.

I had been meanng to get the thermometer for the longest time, but never did. As soon as I read the original post it jogged my memory....I had a thermocouple for my DMM in the tool box! I just happened to be warming the pot at the time I was reading and immediately went to the garage and dug out the t-couple and DMM. I now know that "8" on my pot runs about 750F. I also observed some big downward swings, dropping to almost 650F just before the heating element kicked back on.

Also, just for giggles, I had to check the temp of my 6 cavity H&G #50 after a half hour of casting. The mold was holding a pretty consistent 300F temp after dropping the boolits.

[joel0407]

My gas powered pot runs constant at 700F.