Reloading for 32 French or 7.65 French Long

[Texas by God]

On the chamber sleeve subject; long ago a chamber bushing was advertised in Shotgun News to convert 9mm Largo pistols to fire 9mm Luger.
I installed (soldered) one in one of my $100 Astra 1921/400 pistols so I could use up my Egyptian surplus 9mm Luger ammo. It no longer required two strikes to fire those hard primers.
It shot very well with .357” jacketed bullets - I called the reloads “36 Astra”……
I gave it to a nephew and that bushing is still there today- 35 years later.


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[BP Dave]

I believe Matt, at https://maf-arms.com, is selling the dies. I had a hard time finding them through his menu, but a search for "dies" turned them up at $74.99. 11mm Gras was also listed. There may be a discount code available.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Reloading for this cartridge comes up as a subject here now and then, and I always offer the information that longtime gun writer Mike Venturino has stated several times that the 1935 French pistol was his first handgun, and the first he cast for. Over the years I've read at least one article he wrote about reloading for it, and I think there may be a couple more. You can probably dig the article(s) up with an internet search, or even correspond with him directly, but unknown if your specific questions can be answered by them as I've never reloaded for it myself and didn't keep them after I read them.

DG

[schutzen-jager]

On the chamber sleeve subject; long ago a chamber bushing was advertised in Shotgun News to convert 9mm Largo pistols to fire 9mm Luger.
I installed (soldered) one in one of my $100 Astra 1921/400 pistols so I could use up my Egyptian surplus 9mm Luger ammo. It no longer required two strikes to fire those hard primers.
It shot very well with .357” jacketed bullets - I called the reloads “36 Astra”……
I gave it to a nephew and that bushing is still there today- 35 years later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

the U.S. military actually installed chamber sleeves in M1 Garands so they could use the shorter 7.62 nato rounds in the 30/06 chambers -

[Der Gebirgsjager]

On the chamber sleeve subject; long ago a chamber bushing was advertised in Shotgun News to convert 9mm Largo pistols to fire 9mm Luger.
I installed (soldered) one in one of my $100 Astra 1921/400 pistols so I could use up my Egyptian surplus 9mm Luger ammo. It no longer required two strikes to fire those hard primers.
It shot very well with .357” jacketed bullets - I called the reloads “36 Astra”……
I gave it to a nephew and that bushing is still there today- 35 years later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know that you know about Astra M1921 (400) pistols, so this isn't directed toward you, just an additional commentary.

The chamber of the M1921 will accept a number of 9mm cartridges, but only the 9mm Largo/9mm Bergman cartridges are correct. .38 ACP is almost correct (.38 Super, although of the same dimensions as the ACP is too powerful!) but most of the others like 9mm Parabellum are too short for the chamber, as they headspace on the cartridge mouth making the length where the mouth butts up against the chamber's shoulder critical, and most are too short to make that connection. So shorter cartridges are held in place for firing merely by the extractor hook. Repeated primer strikes being necessary to fire the pistol are very common because there is no resistance to the blow of the firing pin except the extractor hook holding it in place. Now days breakage of the extractor is a much more serious problem than in years gone by, as the supply of parts for the pistols is pretty much restricted to cannibalization of another pistol. It's a testimony to the strength of the design that they hold up as well as they do firing ammunition that they weren't designed for. Be kind to your old Astra, and just use the proper ammo.



DG

[Der Gebirgsjager]

the U.S. military actually installed chamber sleeves in M1 Garands so they could use the shorter 7.62 nato rounds in the 30/06 chambers -

This is true. The idea started with the U.S. Navy. There were two kinds of chamber inserts. The first was designed with flutes on the exterior of the insert. A full power cartridge was inserted into the insert, the insert inserted into the chamber, the cartridge fired. The insert expanded to grip the walls of the chamber. They had a disconcerting habit of sometimes coming out again in the middle of a rifle match, so they went to the second type which was soldered in place. Years ago, I saw one or two ads for surplus inserts, but haven't for a long time. One can purchase Garands now days that are chambered in .308, but 99% of them have a barrel chambered in that cartridge.

DG

[DakotaElkSlayer]

This is where I got my bullets from. https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/price-sheet Just waiting for the Lee dies.

Jim

[schutzen-jager]

I know that you know about Astra M1921 (400) pistols, so this isn't directed toward you, just an additional commentary.

The chamber of the M1921 will accept a number of 9mm cartridges, but only the 9mm Largo/9mm Bergman cartridges are correct. .38 ACP is almost correct (.38 Super, although of the same dimensions as the ACP is too powerful!) but most of the others like 9mm Parabellum are too short for the chamber, as they headspace on the cartridge mouth making the length where the mouth butts up against the chamber's shoulder critical, and most are too short to make that connection. So shorter cartridges are held in place for firing merely by the extractor hook. Repeated primer strikes being necessary to fire the pistol are very common because there is no resistance to the blow of the firing pin except the extractor hook holding it in place. Now days breakage of the extractor is a much more serious problem than in years gone by, as the supply of parts for the pistols is pretty much restricted to cannibalization of another pistol. It's a testimony to the strength of the design that they hold up as well as they do firing ammunition that they weren't designed for. Be kind to your old Astra, and just use the proper ammo.



DG

i shot my Chilean Navy model 400 using .38 super cases loaded to .38 acp specs with no issues or modifications - perfectly reliable + very accurate - sorry i sold it -

[Abert Rim]

Hope you get your 1935A running, sir. I had one years ago and it was a wonderful little pistol. I used expensive ammo using modified .32 S&W Long brass and loaded or provided by Buffalo Arms. It shot fine, but the cost convinced me to sell the pistol. The 1935 A was nicer than the 1935 S.

[challenger_i]

Mtnman31: PM inbound.

[mtnman31]

Hope you get your 1935A running, sir. I had one years ago and it was a wonderful little pistol. I used expensive ammo using modified .32 S&W Long brass and loaded or provided by Buffalo Arms. It shot fine, but the cost convinced me to sell the pistol. The 1935 A was nicer than the 1935 S.

I am shooting the 1935s. It is a decent little pistol, but I would agree that the 1935A is nicer. That said, I got the 1935s from a friend a few years back. He inherited it but is really only interested in modern firearms, so I bought it from him for a good price (cheap). When I first got it (before Starline started making brass) I spent a few hours making a few cases out of .32 S&W Long brass. I showed up at the range excited to finally shoot the old boy, and wouldn't you know it, the firing pin was broken. I found a replacement and now the pistol works fairly well. It has a decent trigger pull for a surplus military pistol.

[Outpost75]

the U.S. military actually installed chamber sleeves in M1 Garands so they could use the shorter 7.62 nato rounds in the 30/06 chambers -

And truth be told, the Garand will function reliably with 7.62 NATO clipped ball just fine without the sleeve. The shoulder diameter of M80 or M118 is a crush fit in the Garand chamber and the case fire-forns to nearly a straight cylinder with a slight mouth radius. You get a 120 fps velocity drop, but reasonable accuracy.

[schutzen-jager]

And truth be told, the Garand will function reliably with 7.62 NATO clipped ball just fine without the sleeve. The shoulder diameter of M80 or M118 is a crush fit in the Garand chamber and the case fire-forns to nearly a straight cylinder with a slight mouth radius. You get a 120 fps velocity drop, but reasonable accuracy.

iirc - not a safe procedure - been documented to shear case heads if it sticks in chamber - also if the extractor claw holds the .308 slightly forward it results in a blown primer with massive gas leakage - the chamber sleeve holds the case against the case properly - the 7.62 nato + .308 is not a crush fit in all 30/06 chambers

[Kosh75287]

When I ponder spending more on a pistol than it took to buy it, I inevitably come down to the questions: How does it shoot, now? Will it shoot better/ cheaper/more conveniently, after the investment?
If I had a $200 pistol that shot exceptionally well, or even just "pretty well", I might be inclined to drop that much money, again, to optimize it for my use, never expecting to recoup the cost. If you can still buy it, a $75 die set that exactly fits the cartridge of interest seems like a no-brainer.
Your wish to see how the round and pistol perform with j-word projectiles is probably worth investigation, but unlikely to succeed with currently produced components. I am unaware of anyone producing jacketed .312" bullets suitable for use in pistols. It may be possible, however, to form such bullets by trimming rimmed .32 caliber revolver brass and swaging it to .312" at the base. Filling the cavity (almost) with a bit of molten lead and a means to create a nose diameter of ~5mm would complete the chore.
A custom swaging set up would likely exceed the amount you wish to spend. While I am not a machinist, I would expect that a competent one could guide you in creating one, yourself. If you are contemplating cutting down .30 Carbine dies, you may already have the tools and skills required.
Fabbing a tool to form a nose on the swaged bullet jackets is NOT a task for which I have a ready answer. However, this site is visited by scores, if not legions, of contributors who are more adept than me at such innovations. A few of them may have already done a similar thing for another caliber.

[dtknowles]

ok, I disassembled one of the rounds in my collection.

85 gr. open base fmj bullet, 0.308" diameter
2.5 gr. of sort of flake powder, grains are not very uniform
Berdan primer
1947 headstamp






Did you slug your barrel?

Tim

[Thin Man]

The earlier comments about the Astra 400 being able to accept several different cartridge calibers restored a long forgotten memory to me. A man approached me with the offer to sell me his Astra 400 that would not generate reliable one-strike ignition. He produced his Astra 400 and it looked rather nice. His price for it was modest and I agree to the purchase. After I had paid him for the pistol he produced the magazine, then walked away. I found this magazine was stuffed full with .380 ammunition. I removed those rounds and loaded the pistol with proper ammo and found it to be reliable for one-strike ammo. I kept the Astra until a friend decided he needed it more than I did and it went away.

[mtnman31]

Did you slug your barrel?

Tim

I did slug it. I measured .3010" bore and .3080" - .3085" groove diameter.

[Kosh75287]

If your barrel slugs at .3080" -.3085", then forget what I said about swaging cases to get j-bullets of proper diameter. There are many types of jacketed .308" pistol bullets being made. The trick is to locate them. I would think that Speer, Sierra, and Hornady make something that would work very well for you.

[challenger_i]

Hornady #31000 90gr .309". Works excellent in 7.65 French Long.

[Larry Gibson]

And truth be told, the Garand will function reliably with 7.62 NATO clipped ball just fine without the sleeve. The shoulder diameter of M80 or M118 is a crush fit in the Garand chamber and the case fire-forns to nearly a straight cylinder with a slight mouth radius. You get a 120 fps velocity drop, but reasonable accuracy.

Saw that done with M1s numerous times. Never saw nor heard of the problems schutzen-jager mentions. Had a couple Ranger delink 400 rounds of M60 7.62 NATO 4-1 rounds and fire it through a couple M1919A1s (BARs) w/o any problems. Only problem with that was the ASP wouldn't take the odd looking (to them anyway) brass back. Had to FL size the cases for turn in.....

Many years ago at a military team match there was a Navy team there with M1s that had the '06 chamber sleeved. After the navy team shot the Infantry Trophy match and were policing their brass a fired case with a sleeve stuck on it was found at the 600 yards line. Many additional rounds had been fired (all well fire formed in the '06 chamber) up through the 300 yards line. The rifle was a "swing gun" and fired many shots w/o a hic up minus the sleeve.

I've also shot 7.62 NATO in M1903A1s and "A3s", M98 Mauser '06s and even my M70 3-06 to demonstrated it isn't dangerous. The CRF extractor hold the case back against the bolt face. In the several rifles with plunger ejectors where the 7.62 case shoulder did not "headspace" on the '06 chamber taper the ejector pushed the case to far into the chamber for the firing pin to reach the primer. Fail to fire was the result and also fail to extract as the extractor had not snapped over the cartridge rim.

Not saying it's something we should do.