My homemade black powder

[indian joe]

I don't totally agree with just weight comparisons.
Gold doesn't weigh as much as lead.
But they probably both can be used for casting Boolits.
I would only care which one performed good or even better than the other.
A lighter charcoal could lighten the total weight of your powder mix.
So let's see how it performed.

I agree with your thoughts - always thought that a lighter charcoal should make for less weight in finished powder
never been much interested in the puck density idea - the way I do things the margin for error there would render any number I took invalid
I make comparison to a sample of commercial powder just to see how I compare BUT 1) different charcoal 2) I dont polish my powder - so more irregular grain formation 3) I dont use graphite -------all of which I figure are gonna make for less density in my finished stuff

I do have a chronograph that I use to check on performance of cartridge loads - this tells me my 92% - 94% density powder is giving almost identical velocity to the 100% load of commercial (which is 1994 vintage goex from the Moosic Pa plant) ---Wano does not come close in my testing - Swiss I have no clue (never shot it)

As an aside Gold is substantially heavier (density) than lead (Au = 19.32 G/cc , Pb = 11.34 G/cc) Mercury Hg = 13.6 G/cc so it will float lead and most other things but sinks gold which is why Hg used in recovery of gold

[indian joe]

For me the real comparison has to be by weight. BP may be the best in the world, if you don't compress it well, you will classify it poorly. The compression level does not tell you whether the BP is good or bad. That's why it's fair to compare them with equal masses and measure the speed. Then check whether it is dirty or clean.

this gets more interesting the more we mess with it
I have managed to get 40 grains of low density (65 %) screened powder into 44/40 cases under a 200grn boolit - got good velocity from it - just was a lot of work - fill the cases compress it - refill compress again - add the final bit compress again -

I make screened powder for front loaders and load by weight (or usually cut a bigger measure to compensate)
but in the end its easier to make pucks for cartridge loads

I have setup a scale on the handle of my press that takes the compression die and it is noticeble that homebrew takes a greater depth of compression to get the same scale reading as commercial powder so that is telling we are not quite getting there with puck compression ---one of the fellers said back a ways that overcompressing would reduce potential velocity ? Dont know about that but the lack of compression in screened powder does not reduce energy per gram in my experience - that screened stuff is just as lively by weight ................................

[LAGS]

I agree I J.
If you make homemade powder.
Shoot your loads by Weight , Not Volume.
As far as weight of the charcoal.
If the charcoal is lighter you are still using the SAME weight as your chemical percentages go.
But since that charcoal is lighter than your other ones, your Volume of charcoal is More.
It is like a Ton of lead compared to a Ton of Feathers.
They are the same weight.
But the feathers take up more space.
And it too is the same if you compress the feathers.

[DoubleBuck]

I'll be interested to see if anyone else gets better results from the TP Charcoal, in 77-13-10 ratios. I started to do it, but wanted my first test to be heads up, to the others. The light density/greater volume to weight ratio may be why the guy on youtube got his higher velocity results with the higher Nitrate ratio. If I recall correctly, he said he made it to the same specs as all of his powder, and mentioned the ratio.

[LAGS]

I think that since the TP charcoal is lighter and a larger volume , the decrease in charcoal percentage might work better with the higher percentage of KN03.
The Balsa charcoal that I made was also so much lighter and way more volume compared to even Willow Charcoal.
But I never got around to playing with different percentages in my mixes , because I don't have a lot of Balsa Charcoal to play with.
But using the TP , it is way more available than the Balsa.

[Swineherd]

I got 92% to 94% of old Goex density
doubt you will get much better than that
1) different charcoal (willow here)
2) different pressing method
3) they tumble and graphite coat - both of which add density in the way the stuff packs in a measure
4) does it really matter ? I get very close to identical velocities with a measured charge so energy per weight is a little better to compensate for the decreased density . also believe its cleaner in the gun (a big plus)

All other things being equal, if you're loading in a cartridge, density of energy to volume matters.

[DoubleBuck]

LAGS
I agree with you on both points. I had a block of Balsa about 5" X 5" X 10" and a smaller piece given to me a few years ago. I used the small block about 3 years or more ago and have set on the other piece for when I think I've got this powder making down pat. That block might make a couple of pounds or more. I hope more than that. Balsa powder is fun. I didn't have a chronograph when I made that, but I played with it and shot it up quick. Like you, I didn't have enough to experiment with different recipes. This TP charcoal is every bit that light, I think. I'm hopeful we can put some tricks together to get it as good as possible. I think it has a few surprises left in store....

[HWooldridge]

My first (and so far only) batch of TP powder didn't come out at the exact same density as Goex but it is more energetic. A 40-grain volume charge of TP weighed 37 grains against 40 of Goex although the velocity was equal or higher.

Some have said lighting a sample in open air doesn't tell you much about what it will do inside the gun, but I can see a marked difference between this batch and anything else I've made so far. My previous batches yielded an orange flame and were relatively fast; the TP batch made a bright yellow to white flame and was instantly consumed, with almost no residue in my test trough. The different colors could mean the flame temperature is higher on the TP and that assumption is borne out over the chronograph. I also noticed that the loading lever on the Walker dropped with every shot of the TP powder, but the Goex and my previous homemade stuff never recoiled enough to move it. All of these observations would tend to indicate more energy per grain is being produced.

Therefore, you might not get to the same exact density as commercial powder but it also may not make much difference. I'm going to load some of this in a 44-40 and see what kind of velocity I get out of a cartridge.

PS - I mixed the TP batch at 77-15-10, and yes, I realize it totals 102 parts.

[Sandro_ventania]

this gets more interesting the more we mess with it
I have managed to get 40 grains of low density (65 %) screened powder into 44/40 cases under a 200grn boolit - got good velocity from it - just was a lot of work - fill the cases compress it - refill compress again - add the final bit compress again -

I make screened powder for front loaders and load by weight (or usually cut a bigger measure to compensate)
but in the end its easier to make pucks for cartridge loads

I have setup a scale on the handle of my press that takes the compression die and it is noticeble that homebrew takes a greater depth of compression to get the same scale reading as commercial powder so that is telling we are not quite getting there with puck compression ---one of the fellers said back a ways that overcompressing would reduce potential velocity ? Dont know about that but the lack of compression in screened powder does not reduce energy per gram in my experience - that screened stuff is just as lively by weight ................................

I didn't like the sifted powder, I found the grains irregular and fragile to the touch, turning into powder easily. I make discs without worrying about the density, just to make the grains hard and classify them in the sieves. In addition to being more professional visually, right?

Ps:my BP is staying around 1 to 1.1g/cc. Interestingly, I read somewhere that bp weighs 16gn/cc.

[Sandro_ventania]

My first (and so far only) batch of TP powder didn't come out at the exact same density as Goex but it is more energetic. A 40-grain volume charge of TP weighed 37 grains against 40 of Goex although the velocity was equal or higher.

Some have said lighting a sample in open air doesn't tell you much about what it will do inside the gun, but I can see a marked difference between this batch and anything else I've made so far. My previous batches yielded an orange flame and were relatively fast; the TP batch made a bright yellow to white flame and was instantly consumed, with almost no residue in my test trough. The different colors could mean the flame temperature is higher on the TP and that assumption is borne out over the chronograph. I also noticed that the loading lever on the Walker dropped with every shot of the TP powder, but the Goex and my previous homemade stuff never recoiled enough to move it. All of these observations would tend to indicate more energy per grain is being produced.

Therefore, you might not get to the same exact density as commercial powder but it also may not make much difference. I'm going to load some of this in a 44-40 and see what kind of velocity I get out of a cartridge.

PS - I mixed the TP batch at 77-15-10, and yes, I realize it totals 102 parts.

I have experienced 76-15-9. Since the sulfur is only there to reduce the ignition temperature, I figured that's where I could get some out.

[Graysmoke]

I don’t want to seem thick, but I have been trying to figure the density of my pucks and never come up with anything near what everyone is stating. Tried what was said in the posts but goofed up some how and came out with some 19 number and quit.

[Nobade]

I just made my first batch of golden powder tonight. I spread the crumbly dough out on plastic wrap to let it cool. It does get extremely hard! I ground some of it up in my coffee grinder to the consistency of fine gunpowder. Now what? Is it ready to use? Or does it need to rest or get baked in the oven or anything else?

I did light some and it burns very aggressively but nowhere near as fast as black powder. It does make a lot of smoke. This is going to be interesting to play with.

[Nobade]

I don’t want to seem thick, but I have been trying to figure the density of my pucks and never come up with anything near what everyone is stating. Tried what was said in the posts but goofed up some how and came out with some 19 number and quit.

Did you measure the volume of the puck (pi R squared times height) then weigh it and divide the weight by the volume?

[HWooldridge]

I just made my first batch of golden powder tonight. I spread the crumbly dough out on plastic wrap to let it cool. It does get extremely hard! I ground some of it up in my coffee grinder to the consistency of fine gunpowder. Now what? Is it ready to use? Or does it need to rest or get baked in the oven or anything else?

I did light some and it burns very aggressively but nowhere near as fast as black powder. It does make a lot of smoke. This is going to be interesting to play with.

Nobade, do you have access to a chronograph for velocity testing?

[dondiego]

I didn't like the sifted powder, I found the grains irregular and fragile to the touch, turning into powder easily. I make discs without worrying about the density, just to make the grains hard and classify them in the sieves. In addition to being more professional visually, right?

Ps:my BP is staying around 1 to 1.1g/cc. Interestingly, I read somewhere that bp weighs 16gn/cc.

16 grains per CC is not much different from 1 GRAM per CC since a gram is 15.43 grains.

[Nobade]

Nobade, do you have access to a chronograph for velocity testing?

I do. At least it used to work if I can get some batteries.

[DoubleBuck]

Graysmoke
Density can be confusing. You're not the first one confused by it. It is the weight of the puck divided by Pi times the radius squared of your puck, times the thickness of the puck. If you want to get Grams per CC, then use those metrics in measurement.
Here's a simple conversion for metric to inch conversions, if you need them https://duckduckgo.com/?t=piriform&q...version&ia=web
And here is a cylinder volume calculator, which you can use Metric or SAE/Troy numbers: https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/cylinder-volume. This is what I use
So if your Puck is 2 inches in Diameter (5.08 CM), the Radius is 1 inch (2.54 CM) So, Radius squared is 1"x1"=1". Times Pi is 3.1416 which is 3.1416 square inches. Or, in Metric it is 2.54CM times 2.54CM= 6.4516 CM times 3.1416=20.2683 CM squared. Now let's say your puck is 1/4" thick. That is .250 inches, or .635 CM. So 3.1416 Square inches times .250" thickness = .7854 Cubic inches. Or, 20.2683 CM times .635CM= 12.8703 Cubic Centimeters.
If you weigh anything but grams, you will have to convert that measurement to grams, or use ounces per cubic inch or pounds per cubic inch, Etc., as your density.
So, finally, you take the weight of the puck and let's just say it weighs 20 grams. Take 20 grams and divide it by our 12.8703 CC's. And that equals 1.554 grams per CC Density. The second calculator above is very handy. You can click the parameters and plug in your numbers.
I hope I didn't confuse you with the inches measurements, but that is what I use and have to convert to metric. All of my measurement devices are in inches or decimals thereof. It would be simpler for me, to use Pounds per Square inch, or ounces per square inch. 1.554 grams per CC equals .8983 ounces per Cubic Inch, in case you're wondering. That comes from here: https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/cylinder-volume

[Sandro_ventania]

Sandro;
You're saying your screened powder is running about 1 to 1.1 Grams per CC?
From everything I've read on powder measures and densities of Commercial powder, I think they both run about 1.7 Grams per CC. That is supposed to be where powder measures are calculated to and the standard density of Commercial Black Powder.
Not sure about the 16 grains to the CC on powder. If your screened powder is running 1 to 1.1 G/CC, that is pretty close. On pucks, I would think that number would be much higher. 1.7 G/CC density would be 26.24 Grains per CC.

I measured wrong. I measured 1cc of 2F and thought. I'm going to do it the right way, I'm going to measure the disc and weigh the disc.

[Sandro_ventania]

I just made my first batch of golden powder tonight. I spread the crumbly dough out on plastic wrap to let it cool. It does get extremely hard! I ground some of it up in my coffee grinder to the consistency of fine gunpowder. Now what? Is it ready to use? Or does it need to rest or get baked in the oven or anything else?

I did light some and it burns very aggressively but nowhere near as fast as black powder. It does make a lot of smoke. This is going to be interesting to play with.

It's ready to use! The one I make is as fast as BP or more! Test the cooking time, the longer it takes, the more golden it becomes... until it turns caramel colored... after which it catches fire. Also try varying the proportions of nitrate and acid slightly. And it really creates a lot of smoke, but have you noticed it cleaner?

[DoubleBuck]

Sandro;
It's all good. Some people, (Indian Joe) uses the weigh and measure method, or loaded density; instead of density at the puck. They will both basically tell you the same thing. There are small loaded density variances by the grades, but will tell you if total density is below, at or above, factory density, and measure/weight density. I just use the puck densities, for my own satisfaction.