Making Ben's Red

[Soundguy]

OK, here's a question - Did anyone have any problems with accuracy declining when switching from Alox-based lube to Ben's Red? I'm loading for a .375 Winchester;

W-W cases
W-W LR primers
10.0 gr. Unique
Lee .380-255 plain base boolit, .380" diameter as dropped from mold
Alloy is 94-3-3
Average velocity = 1297 fps
Marlin Model 375 w/ microgroove rifling, slugs at .377"

When I lubed with Lee liquid Alox thinned with mineral spirits (2 coats) I was getting 1-1/2" groups @ 50 yds. When I lubed with Ben's Red group size shot up to 3-5"! Has anyone had this happen to them?

I am careful to clean the bore before switching lubes, even from a cold, clean barrel the Alox-lubed boolits shoot 1-1/2". I shot four 5 shot groups yesterday lubed with Brn's Red and groups opened up start6ing at 3" on target 1 and increasing to 5" on target 4. Can anyone offer some insight here?

Same projectiles, or did you switch from a micro groove to a conventional grease groove boolit?

[centershot]

No, GG boolits, Micro-groove barrel on the rifle.

[35 shooter]

Ben's Red is a very soft and slick lube, so it's possible it may not shoot the exact load you were using with alox.
If your not at some maximum load, maybe tweaking the powder charge up or down a bit May work.

[centershot]

I'm surprised that a load that shot so well would change so much by changing lubes. But, what do I know, I've been using alox lubes (NRA 50-50 and tumble lube) for forty years, this is the first time I've used anything else. Deer season is two weeks away, so any load tinkering will have to wait until the first of the year. Thank you all for your input, I'll make some changes and post my results.

[35 shooter]

Centershot,

I don't know that it will. All i can say is that Ben's Red shoots tighter groups with the same loads than any lube i've ever tried in my rifles....even when i worked those loads up with another lube.
I also like the way my first shots are always in the group no matter if it's a clean or fouled bore.

As far as tumble lubing with straight alox, it always purged badly every 5 to 7 shots with me.
Then i tried Ben's BLL tumble lube and it has worked as well as the Ben's Red lube for me and surprisingly(to me) with the same loads.
Both of Ben's lubes have worked for a ton of other folks i've recomended it for too.

NRA 50/50 is a very good lube, but didn't work out as well over all the temp. ranges, nor higher velocities that i shoot sometimes in my rifles.

Bottom line is that some bbls. vary in what they like and if yours likes what your using i would stick with it for sure.

Good luck with your hunting...hope you get a freezer full(and me too lol)

Hope you get the Ben's Red working for you, i believe in it 100%.

[Engineer1911]

Take your cooling pan of Ben's lube, turn off the freezer or refrigerator, and set the pan on the shelf. In about 10 minutes you will have cold lube and a defrosted frig or freezer.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

what a great thread

[Shiloh]

Johnson's paste wax is no more. Substitutions for it???

Shiloh

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Johnson's paste wax is no more. Substitutions for it???

Shiloh

I don't think anyone has experimented with this yet?
TreWax and MinWax, both have a natural paste wax product for wood, that are similar to JPW and are available at the hardware store ...and have been discussed here.

[Sam Sackett]

I think the carnuba wax is what is needed. I’m thinking any of the wood paste waxes will work as long as they are carnuba based.

Sam Sackett

[triggerhappy243]

Johnson's paste wax is no more. Substitutions for it???

Shiloh

i have a can of this. i do not remember if i bought it or if my dad bought it and i wound up inheriting it.

[Bigslug]

Johnson's paste wax is no more. Substitutions for it???

Shiloh

So. . .the JPW for both Ben's Red and 45/45/10 is now gone. And the Johnson's liquid for BLL is gone. What the all-encompassing actual ****?

[Ben]

When making Ben's Red, I've substituted this.
So far, I cannot tell any difference in this and the Johnson's Paste wax.

Ben

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

I made a batch with Min Wax, works fine, first batch so nothing to compare it to.

[Ben]

If it shoots well and meets your needs , you don't have to compare it to anything.

Ben

[justindad]

SDS / MSDS sheets are not required to disclose all ingredients, only those related to safety matters. The Trewax SDS sheet doesn’t give anything helpful, but the JPW SDS does. The proportions can add up to 100%, but I wouldn’t take that as a guarantee that there are no undisclosed ingredients. Without further ado…

[justindad]

Two possible DIY JPW recipes…

…two recipes in an old "Woodworkers Pocket Book" by Charles H Hayward for making furniture creams.
In both 6 parts carnauba wax, 3½ parts japan wax and 1½ parts paraffin wax are melted together.
In one that is then dissolved in about the same quantity of pure American turpentine to form a paste which is stirred well and to which is added a little french chalk and ammonia.
In the second recipe it is dissolved in 12 parts of pure American turpentine. 3 parts of white curd soap are shredded into 30 parts hot water. The two are then stirred together while hot and allowed to cool. This cleans as well as polishes.

https://forums.ybw.com/threads/what-...lve-in.121209/
Looking in a few places, it seems melting Carnauba wax into other waxes helps to get it dissolved into acetone/turpentine/mineral spirits. Sometimes you have to gently warm up the solvent… which you probably don’t want to inhale.

[triggerhappy243]

SDS / MSDS sheets are not required to disclose all ingredients, only those related to safety matters. The Trewax SDS sheet doesn’t give anything helpful, but the JPW SDS does. The proportions can add up to 100%, but I wouldn’t take that as a guarantee that there are no undisclosed ingredients. Without further ado…

is the sds/msds required to provide info/warnings for possible allergic reactions?

[justindad]

is the sds/msds required to provide info/warnings for possible allergic reactions?

I’ve never seen that info in an SDS. I don’t know how items are chosen for required reporting in an SDS, but if it’s not on the NFPA diamond then it’s probably not required.

[triggerhappy243]

Thanks to Ben and others who shared how they make it, I decided to try it today. This is the basic mix:
50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment


But a forum member was nice enough to describe that in other units, and using a complete Red Tacky Lucas Grease:
24 ozs. = 3 cups - melted beeswax
14 ozs. = 1 3/4 cups - Red N Tacky , heat it..it doesn't really melt
4.6 ozs. = 2/3 cup - Johnsons Paste Wax - melted
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup - Dexron II or III ATF
2.3 ozs. = 1/3 cup- STP Oil Treatment

Note, 1/3 cup = 5 Tablespoons + 1 teaspoon


So I got several low cost supplies from Wally World, and from my local auto parts store:



I do my own electronics, so I have two hot ways to do surface mount reflow, so I tried one:



For the Red grease, I open the end, and squeezed it out like toothpaste (tip from a forum member here):



Then used spatula to get the other end (as much as possible):



I am waiting for beeswax from randyrat, but before I knew of him I had ordered a small amount through Amazon, which happen to come in little pellets. Here I got about 20 oz - I will add the rest later, as I was not 100% everything would fit in my container (it did):



The wax:

After I had the grease there for a while (while stirring it), I added the beeswax:





But I was never able to get enough heat, quickly enough:



So I tried my "better" hotplate:

re-routing.