357 mag / max, 200 cast gc, 296 starting load?

[oconeedan]

I am playing with 10" contender barrels, in 357 mag and 357 max. I am wanting to use Lee 358-200 bullets with gc. There is very little data available using Win 296 powder. Can anyone give me a starting load for each?

The 357 mag barrel has almost no throat, and bullets must be seated to the normal crimp groove.
The 357 max barrel has a very long throat, and bullets can be seated at any depth, as they will never be seated long enough to reach the rifling. I prefer to not leave lube grooves exposed, but I am not against it.

I know 296 can't be down loaded much, and needs a crimp. I am looking for accuracy over everything else.

I have tried Blue Dot, 4227, and 2400 with less than good results. I am sizing to .358, and may need to try 359 or 360, but I don't have those sizers.

This is for silhouettes, but I have been known to fling lead at deer and hogs. Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
Dan

[Paul105]

Here are some data points for .357 Magnum.
Not the same bullet but dimensions given so you can adjust load accordingly (more bullet in case less powder).
Usual caveat - APPROACH WITH CAUTION.
.
Bullet - Leadheads 200gr WLNGC -
Top of crimp to nose .330"
Meplat .270"
Toal length .840"

From a 2.75" S&W M66-8 (current version of M66 with thick barrel extension)
200gr WLNGC (leadheads), 13.4gr H110, Fed 205, New Starline.. 1,102 fps avg ( 4 fps ES) – two rounds
.
200gr WLNGC (leadheads), 14.4gr H110, Fed 205, New Starline.. 1,155 fps avg ( 2 fps ES) – two rounds
(purported to be the “Doubletap” load info)
.
200gr WLNGC (leadheads) handload with Lil Gun ………………………. 1,266 fps avg ( 2 fps ES) -- two rounds
(Using 180gr Nos Part data from Hodgdon on line reloading info)

All seated to and crimped in crimp grove. Primers not flattened and cases ejected with no resistance t. I know, not absolute indication of pressure but only thing I have to go by. I would only use sparingly in above gun after I proved that they stabilize.


ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.

Grizzly Cartridge offers 200gr WFNGC .357 Mag ammo at an advertised 1,300 fps. Best I can tell the bullet used is identical to the one I used in above loads. Same nose to crimp .330, same meplat .270 -- they don't list total length but pictures are identical.
.
My bullet
.

.
Grizzly bullet from their website
.



Again, APPROACH with caution

Paul

[stubshaft]

Back in the day, when I shot Sillywett, I loaded the SSK 200 grain TCFP, ahead of 22.0 grains of 296. This was my "Ram" load out of my 10" Tender and Ruger Maximum.

[oconeedan]

Thank you Paul and Stubshaft!

[contender1]

I know you are wanting info on 296. I try to not thread drift but some of your comments caused me to POLITELY offer a few thoughts.

You mentioned silhouette shooting. A former serious handgunner well known to the silhouette game, David Bradshaw helped Bill Ruger develop the .357 Maximum. A few years ago,, David, and another gentleman,, Lee Martin collaborated and designed an EXCELLENT cast bullet, that uses a GC,, just for the Maxi. It's called the "Bradshaw/Martin" bullet & casts a 194 grn slug that has been proven to be a very accurate bullet for the Maxi. David & Lee did a LOT of testing prior to letting us know about it. They found that IMR-4227 powder,, with 18.5 grns was the best load. BUT an additional thing.
The bullets are powder coated,, AND deep seated just over the front driving band.
I've tried this combo, and got identical results that they had gotten.

Maybe this is something to study.

[oconeedan]

I know you are wanting info on 296. I try to not thread drift but some of your comments caused me to POLITELY offer a few thoughts.

You mentioned silhouette shooting. A former serious handgunner well known to the silhouette game, David Bradshaw helped Bill Ruger develop the .357 Maximum. A few years ago,, David, and another gentleman,, Lee Martin collaborated and designed an EXCELLENT cast bullet, that uses a GC,, just for the Maxi. It's called the "Bradshaw/Martin" bullet & casts a 194 grn slug that has been proven to be a very accurate bullet for the Maxi. David & Lee did a LOT of testing prior to letting us know about it. They found that IMR-4227 powder,, with 18.5 grns was the best load. BUT an additional thing.
The bullets are powder coated,, AND deep seated just over the front driving band.
I've tried this combo, and got identical results that they had gotten.

Maybe this is something to study.

Thank you so much! I do have 4227 and will look into your suggestion. Where can I find this bullet mould? Or is the 358-200 similar?

[oconeedan]

Ha, I found your post on a different forum! Going back and looking at my 357 max targets using 4227, I need to go back and work with that powder. Thank you for the eye opener.
Dan

[P Flados]

I started shooting the 357 Max for IHMSA using by brand new Dan Wesson revolver. I used Speer 200s with right around 20 gr of 296. After a few years of IHMSA, life got in the way and I put all my shooting stuff away.

Decades later I got back into shooting and started working back towards getting things lined up for a return to IHMSA.

I found some Hodgdon 357 Max data with 20 gr of H110 under a Speer 200 with a COAL at 2.00" (this allows crimping in the groove). Quickload say this results in a 0.465" seating depth.

I ended up getting the Lee 200 mold. I remember sticking with the 20 gr charge even though the cast bullet was not seated as deep as the Speer. My notes say COAL was 2.080" and seating depth was 0.348"

I also got a 10" and 14" max barrels for my TC.

About the time I got the Lee mold, I ran out of my 296 & got some H110. The batch of H110 seemed to have ignition problems and I switched first to 4227 (was not happy) and then to Wc 680. The Lee 200 worked pretty good with the Wc 680 in all three guns.

However, when I actually tried using the 10" TC, I found that the recoil was causing my wrist to get sore after firing a dozen or so rounds. I realized that I am too old to take any chances tearing up my wrist joint on my right hand & I got rid of the barrel.

Now I shoot a Lee 128 gr from a 10" 7 TCU for my production gun.

[cwlongshot]

One of my most favorite bullets for the Maxi is the Lyman 358627 over a worked up charge of 4227. It shoots very accurate and carried a good payload. It has taken deer and pigs and toppled many steel targets thru the last almost forty years.

Its a SEC bullet depending upon alloy its about 215g.

I have also shot many RCBS 200 fm and the clones from NOE/LEE/MP to great effect.
MP makes a 220g as well I love in the 358 but it does well in Contender where OAL isnt as important.
Lastly the Saeco 245g is same profile as RCBS/200 and has that extra weight if wanted.

CW

[stubshaft]

Another boolit that has worked very well for me was the SAECO #356 200 gr. FPGC. It also shoots lights out in my 35- 30/30.

[cwlongshot]

Another boolit that has worked very well for me was the SAECO #356 200 gr. FPGC. It also shoots lights out in my 35- 30/30.

You goged my memory with Saeco!!

There excellent #351 is a 200g & the #353 is a 180g fp bullet!!! ( The 352 is the afore mentioned 245g.)

[Jtarm]

Have fun with that 10” Maximum

[Nobade]

I have been shooting a 357 max in a Handi Rifle and 357 mag in a Contender recently. I have learned that once you figure out where the bullet needs to be so it fits the throat, a case full of Lil' Gun (bullet sitting on it but not compressed) works quite well in either case. The Max gets rifle primers and mag gets pistol primers, to accomodate the different pressures. Note that if someone had one of those long throated barrels TC made for a while a mag can easily be turned into a Max when the bullet is seated out to reach the rifling.