Win231 and 40sw

[dearslayer]

That's weird because it happens on my .45 as well but again only with cast boolits. The .40sw is TC boolit and it almost feels like the die is hitting the lead boolit before it touches the case. I'm glad someone else knows about the two clunks. I thought I was losing my mind. I post on another forum and nobody knew what I was talking about. I'll do as you suggested to see what happens.

[dearslayer]

Looking at the die I only see one removable component. This bushing is all that moves inside the die.

[justindad]

It’s strange that you have two dies pulling the lead boolits out… maybe there’s something else going on. Either way, it’ll be good to remove that sizing ring.
*
The first clunk is the sizing ring. The second clunk is the crimp. Look at a loaded round and notice that the boolit makes the case bulge out. The small diameter under the bullet allows for radial clearance with the sizing ring, then as you lower the cartridge the sizing ring again hits the large section where the boolit is.

[dearslayer]

This what I see in the die.

Does that ring inside the die come out or is it a permanent thing. It doesn't seem to move and I don't want to damage it by trying.

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[Grayone]

Tungsten sizing ring. Permanent. Negates the use of lube. I still make sure the brass is clean before using.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sorry I got here late but this doesn't have to be so Complicated.

My standard load for my .40 S&W Glock 23 and 35 and my Ruger PCC in .40 S&W is, and has always been, 5.4 gr of W231 with either a Copper Plated 165 gr boolit or a cast and PC'd 165 gr MP 402-165 boolits. I have loaded and shot Thousands of these and will be doing another run soon. I load mine on a Dillon 550B.

This load is "Mid Range" and functions perfectly in my Glocks and Rifle. There is no need to be scared of this cartridge as long as you don't decide to Hot Rod it up in to the danger zone. The paper or steel targets you are going to shoot will not know the difference in an extra 50-100 fps!!! If you need HD ammo go buy some Hornady Critical Defense ammo. don't try to make your own !.

The whole purpose of loading for this Round or for 9mm, is to make practice ammo that is cheap!

One thing you do need to do as a "Case Prep Operation" is run your cases thru a Bulge Buster Die. You already have a Lee Factory Crimp Die? And all you need to do is remove the crimp function and just push all your cases thru the sizing ring which will get rid of any bulges due to unsupported chambers or other chamber imperfections.

This could be the reason why you get the "Clunks " you talk about? Note; this is NOT a Full Length Sizing Die and you can't run your cases all the way thru a FL die, the base will not compress enough to go thru. The Lee Factory Crimp Die has a sizing ring that sizes the cases down to about .421-2. Then you must FL size them as part of your normal loading process. All the factory crimp die does is make the case a uniform diameter over the entire case. Or as stated ,,, Remove the Bulge!

You also need a Taper Crimp on the case that measures .416-.418 at the top edge of the case to hold the boolit in place. This is not an OPTIONAL operation!!! You can do it with your Factory Crimp Die reassembled with the "Crimp Function" in place.. Failure to do this step is to invite a boolit being pushed back into the case resulting in a massive Pressure Spike which can blow up your gun and maybe even you!

All that said as long as you don't try to hotrod the round you will be fine. Hope this helps?

Randy.

[dearslayer]

Sorry I got here late but this doesn't have to be so Complicated.

My standard load for my .40 S&W Glock 23 and 35 and my Ruger PCC in .40 S&W is, and has always been, 5.4 gr of W231 with either a Copper Plated 165 gr boolit or a cast and PC'd 165 gr MP 402-165 boolits. I have loaded and shot Thousands of these and will be doing another run soon. I load mine on a Dillon 550B.

This load is "Mid Range" and functions perfectly in my Glocks and Rifle. There is no need to be scared of this cartridge as long as you don't decide to Hot Rod it up in to the danger zone. The paper or steel targets you are going to shoot will not know the difference in an extra 50-100 fps!!! If you need HD ammo go buy some Hornady Critical Defense ammo. don't try to make your own !.

The whole purpose of loading for this Round or for 9mm, is to make practice ammo that is cheap!

One thing you do need to do as a "Case Prep Operation" is run your cases thru a Bulge Buster Die. You already have a Lee Factory Crimp Die? And all you need to do is remove the crimp function and just push all your cases thru the sizing ring which will get rid of any bulges due to unsupported chambers or other chamber imperfections.

This could be the reason why you get the "Clunks " you talk about? Note; this is NOT a Full Length Sizing Die and you can't run your cases all the way thru a FL die, the base will not compress enough to go thru. The Lee Factory Crimp Die has a sizing ring that sizes the cases down to about .421-2. Then you must FL size them as part of your normal loading process. All the factory crimp die does is make the case a uniform diameter over the entire case. Or as stated ,,, Remove the Bulge!

You also need a Taper Crimp on the case that measures .416-.418 at the top edge of the case to hold the boolit in place. This is not an OPTIONAL operation!!! You can do it with your Factory Crimp Die reassembled with the "Crimp Function" in place.. Failure to do this step is to invite a boolit being pushed back into the case resulting in a massive Pressure Spike which can blow up your gun and maybe even you!

All that said as long as you don't try to hotrod the round you will be fine. Hope this helps?

Randy.

The taper crimp on mine is 0.421 and I can't push the boolit in any further by pushing it against the bench. Should I try to put more crimp on them?

[Kosh75287]

If you cannot push the bullet in further by pushing it hard against the bench, you are probably right where you need to be, on the crimp. One other thing you might try is a taper crimp die, used in a separate step after seating. It IS extra work, but the improvements in feeding and accuracy can be dramatic

[dearslayer]

If you cannot push the bullet in further by pushing it hard against the bench, you are probably right where you need to be, on the crimp. One other thing you might try is a taper crimp die, used in a separate step after seating. It IS extra work, but the improvements in feeding and accuracy can be dramatic

The FCD is where I'm having issues.

[justindad]

The FCD is where I'm having issues.

Lee is not the in the top tier of quality manufacturers.

[dearslayer]

Lee is not the in the top tier of quality manufacturers.

I was thinking about switching to RCBS but I'm not sure if they have a powder through die.

[dearslayer]

Does the primer in this fired case look normal or does it look like a sign of too much pressure. I went to the range today with 15 rounds of 4 different charges starting at 4.3gr..4.5...4.7...and 4.9. The attached photo is the case from the 4.9gr of Win231. Not all the case from this charge look the same. Including a photo of the other cases starting with 4.3 on left.

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[Charliemac]

That looks like an indication of high pressure, large firing pin hole or a combination of the two. When you set your powder measure do you test the weight multiple times? Sometimes it takes quite a few throws before it settles down.

[dearslayer]

That looks like an indication of high pressure, large firing pin hole or a combination of the two. When you set your powder measure do you test the weight multiple times? Sometimes it takes quite a few throws before it settles down.

I generally do about 10 throws before loading and then check after about every 15-20 rounds.

[Charliemac]

What kind of variation do you see?

[justindad]

Does that happen to primers on factory ammo?

[Charliemac]

Does that happen to primers on factory ammo?

Good question

[dearslayer]

What kind of variation do you see?

Its weird because there are 2 out of the 15 @ 4.3 gr and 3 from the 4.5 gr and 6 from the 4.7gr and 10 from the 4.9 grain that look the same. I don't see any other changes in the brass that would indicate anything abnormal.

[dearslayer]

Does that happen to primers on factory ammo?

I haven't shot factory ammo in some time so I wouldn't know, but I'll check it out next time I shoot the 40.

[justindad]

Based on data from Ranger391xt, I was thinking 5.3 grains would be a good max charge for this bullet. You are in the 4’s, so I suspect factory ammo would like the same. However, this is one reason why we work our loads up. Get a chrono or get some factory ammo to see if your pressures are higher than expected.