Which DA revolver for .45 Colt?

[Thumbcocker]

While I’m not a believer in ft/lbs, especially at typical handgun velocities, I do believe that one well placed shot with an adequate projectile trumps a magazine full of “hope”! Yes, being proficient at getting multiple rounds on target is “priceless” even if well practiced relying on time for multiple shots is a fallacy....multiple shots on target is likely a fantasy!

I believe that history shows that there is a higher % of attacks by an inspired give little to no time for counter measures! With that in mind, I’ll risk getting off only one well placed shot....hopefully, I’m granted enough time for that “one” shot! JM (unchanging)O! memtb

Kinda where I was going when I asked about the odds of getting off multiple shots in a critter encounter and if there would be an advantage for a D A vs. SA in that situation.

[Mackay Sagebrush]

While I’m not a believer in ft/lbs, especially at typical handgun velocities, I do believe that one well placed shot with an adequate projectile trumps a magazine full of “hope”! Yes, being proficient at getting multiple rounds on target is “priceless” even if well practiced relying on time for multiple shots is a fallacy....multiple shots on target is likely a fantasy!

I believe that history shows that there is a higher % of attacks by an inspired give little to no time for counter measures! With that in mind, I’ll risk getting off only one well placed shot....hopefully, I’m granted enough time for that “one” shot! JM (unchanging)O! memtb

That theory does not bear out with the reality of actual bear attacks.

MOST bear attacks where guys use handguns are multiple shot affairs, not single shot ones according to information gathered, and multiple shots on target have saved more than a few guys from being killed.


Here is a link to information:

https://sportingclassicsdaily.com/de...ts-by-caliber/

One Alaskan had a Grizzly charging straight at him and managed to save his life by firing numerous rounds from a 10MM Glock into the Grizzly as it was almost on top of him and he fell over backwards.




On 29 July, 2016, about 4 p.m. Kim Woodman was attacked by a sow brown bear at Humpy Creek.

Kim had a Glock model 20 10 mm pistol with him. He was able to stop the attack by shooting the bear as it charged at him. While backing away from the charging bear, Kim tripped and fell backward. He instinctively attempted to fend off the bear with his foot, while he concentrated on firing the shots that saved his life. The last shot was just short of contact. It probably hit the bear in the chest, but also took off the tip of one of Kim’s toes.





AK, Denali National Park: Backpacker Stops Grizzly attack with .45 pistol, May 28, 2010

A grizzly bear that emerged from a thicket and charged two backpackers in the backcountry of Denali National Park and Preserve was shot and killed by one of the two who was carrying a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to park officials.

The killing Friday is believed to be the first instance of a hiker killing a grizzly in the park’s wilderness. The killing occurred in the original Mount McKinley National Park portion of the Denali, which was expanded by two-thirds in 1980.


I looked into that one. The hiker fire NINE rounds of .45 ACP at the attacking bear. They left and informed the Park service. Later Park Service employees found the bear dead approximately 100 feet from where the shooting took place in the bushes.





Here were the stats he collected:

There were twelve uses of .44 magnum revolvers. All were successful.

One was against a black bear, it was mortally wounded but finished off with shotgun slugs. Eleven were against grizzly bears. Two were driven of with “warning shots”. One was driven off, without evidence of being wounded. One was wounded and not recovered. One was wounded and finished off at the scene with a shotgun slug. Six were killed without further assistance.

There were four uses of .45 caliber pistols against bears. All were successful. One was against a black bear, which was killed with additional shots, probably from another handgun. The other three were grizzly bears killed with multiple hits from the .45 caliber pistols.

There was one use of a .45 Super pistol. It was successful. The grizzly bear was killed with one shot.

There was one use of a .454 Casull revolver. 4 or 5 shots were fired and the grizzly bear was finished off at the scene with a rifle brought by the defender’s wife.

There were three cases of pistol defenses against bears where the pistol caliber was not identified. One was a grizzly, which ran off. It was not determined if the bear was wounded or not. The other two were black bears that were killed with the pistol fire.

There was one case where both .357 magnum and .44 magnum revolvers were used. The grizzly bear was killed.

In total, there were 8 defenses against black bears and 27 defenses against grizzly bears.

One pistol failure out of 35 cases translates to a 97% success rate for the use of handguns against bears.

Successful bear defenses with a pistol are probably under-reported, much like successful firearm defenses against criminals. If a predatory black bear is shot and runs off, there are strong incentives for the shooter not to report the incident. Incidents, where no human is injured, are seldom considered news. This creates a strong selection bias against successful pistol defenses against bears.

Predatory black bear attacks are the most common fatal black bear attacks in North America. Only 8 of the pistol defenses listed above are defenses against black bears or 23%. It is reasonable to believe there should be about twice that number. Black bear predatory attacks often give potential victims good opportunities to use a pistol effectively.

I have two reported instances of successful bear defenses with a .38 special revolver. One against a black bear, and one against a grizzly. I have not been able to verify either. I have found two more reported cases of the successful use of the 10 mm pistol, and one more for the .357 magnum, but have not been able to verify them.



Based on that,

What YOU can actually make fast hits with matters. ,44 Magnum, or heavy hard cast loads in a .45 or 10MM. Evidence would indicate that actually making multiple fast hits is more important than getting a single shot off with an elephant load and hoping it is a perfect CNS bullseye.

Personally I carry double action .44 revolvers, .45 ACPs with heavy loads, and 10mms with heavy loads. I am completely comfortable with any of them. I do see an advantage however to the ease of shooting a semi auto such as a Glock 21 and a 250 grain hard cast flat point at 950+.

The fact is that I can run .18 splits very comfortably with the big gun, and I am never going to do that with an N Frame. I ran a G21 as a USPSA gun for years. Putting 5 rounds on target in one second is not too hard with practice. Again, that's not going to happen with a big N Frame or Redhawk, un less your name is Jerry Miculek.



So having 13+1 of 250s at 950 is actually fairly potent medicine. or even 8+1 in a good 1911.

.45 caliber 250s at 950 FPS are nothing to sneeze at, and quite comparable to many .44 Special and old school .45 Colt offerings.

[M-Tecs]

Mackay Sagebrush great info and thanks for posting.

I post the link below whenever this subject comes out.

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/upd...#axzz78NmF2nED

I do spend a fair about of time in the bush in Alaska helping a buddy that owns a bear and salmon guide service. Grizzly Bear sightings are a daily occurrence. Most of the time a rifle or shotgun is not practical.

I purchased a FN FNX 45 Tactical that I will mod. it to 460 Rowland. I can shoot 45ACP. 45 Super or 460 Rowland. The 460 Rowland in the FN gives me 15 rounds of mid level 44 Mag performance in a light very carriable/shootable package. https://www.460rowland.com/

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/upd...#axzz78NmF2nED

[Catshooter]

MacKay,

Nice looking bullet. Which one is it please?


Cat

[Mackay Sagebrush]

It is the 250 grain round nose flat point from Rim Rock. It was actually a .45 Colt bullet, but the sized it down to .451 for autos and it is superb for its purpose.

[Thumbcocker]

Does that boolit shoot to sights?

[Mackay Sagebrush]

They do.

I also have adjustables of a couple of my guns, so fine tuning the particular load, no matter if it is a 200 grain H&G #68 SWC or this 250 grain RN FP is not really an issue.

[Outpost75]

Cadet company classmate of mine was Alaska Native and spent his career in the US Army Corps of Engineers designing and building modern wastewater and sewage treatment systems for the indigenous peoples. Construction crews had available M1 Garands with commercial 180-grain softpoint and 12-ga. Pump shotguns with short Magnum 12-pellet 00 buck and slugs. Over the years in multiple bear encounters the 12-ga. was most effective.

[BigAlofPa.]

My 25-5 is the most accurate hand gun i own. I don't carry it though. It's for the range only. It's in great shape. I want to keep it that way. I load 230 grain .452 coated boolets 8 grains of unique for it from Summers enterprises. Of the woods i carry my SBH 7.5 inch barrel. Pic is with some lube cast i loaded a long time ago.

[Tracy]

I wish Ruger would build a large frame version of the LCR. 5 shot .45 Colt, cut for moon clips to use .45 ACP, enough meat in the cylinder to handle .460 Rowland which means it would also handle .45 Colt Ruger Only loads. Not talking about the .45 Colt loads that are intended for 5 shot revolvers; just the ones that are published for factory Blackhawks. The same revolver could easily be made as a 5-shot .44 Mag.

I know it can be done because I have a couple of 5-shot Taurus .44 Mag Trackers. The snubby version weighs 34 ounces, so an LCR of the same size would probably be sub-30 ounces.
Light weight, great DA trigger and a fully shrouded hammer. With either the .44 or .45 I would probably load a 240-255 grain cast SWC at about 1000 fps. That would be a good bear defense revolver.

[Good Cheer]

For a relatively small large bore self defense revolver I'd be happy with a cylinder just long enough to take a .460 case trimmed back a bit and have the chambers bored straight through. That way the heavy hollow point soft lead gas checked flat point wadcutters would be contained entirely within the brass and the brass ends at the front of the cylinder.
I'd developed HPWC .45 Colt loads to try out (like a .38 Special flush seated but scaled up) back about 1981 or 82 and they made rather messy work on armadillos. Longer brass would be a good thing and with what amounts to a magnum snubbie, accuracy would be more than adequate.
If I win the lottery I'll let you know how it works.

[bigboredad]

Idaho guy
I totally understand your desire to stick to what you know, the 45 colt. It is one of my favorite calibers. All my favorite calibers start with 45. Your bisley is a awesome gun I have one as well. It will hold up to some monster loads the load that scared me was a 350gr. At + 1300fps. Then by mistake one day I discovered how deep penetration I could get with that same 350gr huge meplat bullet at 1000fps out of my 5.5 inch bisley vaquero. The gun was easy to shoot poi was poa . So I'm sure you can get what you need from your gun. But if you want a new gun in d/a my choice would be the newer redhawk in 45 colt and a 4.2 inch bbl. That would be my choice and I would carry in some sort of chest holster.


Now the hard part is finding what you want. I like to watch utahgunexchange.com. The sellers are pretty much on drugs and their prices are high but after a couple weeks most get nervous and are open to suggestions. Have fun making your decisions and shooting

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

[Rodfac]

If it's got to be a .45 Colt, it's my understanding that the Smith's can't or shouldn't be hot-rodded with Ruger only loads. But if the standard .45 Colt prescription of a 250 gr LSWC at 850 fps is good enough, then I'd be looking for a Smith Mountain Gun or their equally good (but with a heavier bbl.) M-25-7. I had one of the early ones, which had grossly oversize cylinder throats (0.457" in my example) which made cast bullet shooting a fools errand. But later production, dash 7 and later IIRC, have closer bbl. vs. cylinder throat tolerances.

For a recommendation, aside from the .45 Colt caliber, I'd suggest a .44 Magnum of Smith or Ruger persuasion with a bbl. short enough to be handy to carry in a cross chest tanker type rig. Smith's model 629 with a full lug bbl. & 6 shot cylinder is a good choice with enough weight to mitigate the .44's recoil. Their model 69 with a 4-1/4" bbl. and a light 38 oz. carry weight might do as well if you can be happy with 5 shots instead of six.

A Ruger Redhawk with a 4" tube in .44 magnum or your preferred .45 Colt is also a possibility. While I'm not personally a fan of Ruger's DA revolvers...hell for strong and with usually good accuracy, they don't appeal to me esthetically but they do enjoy a dedicated following.

Give the caliber some thought...I'd say the .44 Magnum is a better choice...Best Regards, Rod

[Savvy Jack]

Guns are over rated anyway....

[Idaho45guy]

Guns are over rated anyway....

Do you know John Reep? I remember his act on being from Hickory, NC. Hilarious guy!

[MOA]

i love my mountain gun but agree with the 44 suggestion. Unless your buying a huge gun like a ruger alaskan or a tarrus raging bull the 44 will just allows for more power in a simular sized package. A 44 smith N frame will take loads ALOT more powerful then the 45 colt version. You can even go smaller and get one of the 5 shot K frame 44 mags. I own and have owned MANY 45 colts. But that said ive always shook my head at the cult following it gets and even the same for the 41 mag. If your looking at handguns logically the 44 mag will always win. Its the 3006 of handguns. Its never a wrong choice.

I'd have to agree with you Lloyd. A 44 mag loaded anywhere between a 44 special and a full house magnum load will pretty much walk all over anything one can do with a 45 volt. Good guns, dies, brass and just about everything else is no more, or less expensive than the colt cartridge.

[jonp]

I'm surprised it took 2 pages for people to start arguing over 44mag vs 45LC even though the OP wasn't asking caliber advice. 44Mag fans just can't seem to help themselves.

Personally given what you are asking I'd go with a Ruger Redhawk. I'm a giant fan of the Blackhawks but I'd bee much more comfortable with a DA in woods protection. You are right to discard a Governor. Neither it nor the Taurus Judge are made for high end loads.

[MOA]

I'm surprised it took 2 pages for people to start arguing over 44mag vs 45LC even though the OP wasn't asking caliber advice. 44Mag fans just can't seem to help themselves.

Personally given what you are asking I'd go with a Ruger Redhawk. I'm a giant fan of the Blackhawks but I'd bee much more comfortable with a DA in woods protection. You are right to discard a Governor. Neither it nor the Taurus Judge are made for high end loads.

I guess it's true. When one is talking about protection from dangerous animal, and a caliber is presented as the subject of examination for said duty. In this case a DA in mid 40 caliber, and in this specific case 45 Colt. But along with caliber and it's duty of protection, price was brought into the picture. Also the 45 Casull was also introduced as a possible tool to be used. All that set aside, I believe that all us 44 mag owners just try to be helpful when the subject of using a handgun for protection against dangerous animals in backwoods country with a DA handgun. All considered, it's a better fit for the job than any thing you can do with a colt 45 in order to save your life. IMHO.

[Savvy Jack]

If I am looking for a DA revolver for killing bears in self defense, I think I will take the advice from folks currently living in Brown Bear country like Alaska over someone in Florida or Ohio and even Michigan!. Maybe even from those with first hand experience such as seasoned guides and those living with the bears that may have such experiences.

Then there are the Black Bear country guys........

[ddixie884]

Guns are over rated anyway....

I'd hate to have to do it like that........