All the Complaining That Goes On About Lee Precision

[lightman]

go to midsouth website, its redding with them expensive *** dies for 7x57. 1 "competition" grade is 259.00$ other is 359$ while little old "substandard lee" wants 30$ for a FLS, seater, and crimping die.

I'm not sure that I understand your argument. In post #403 you name RCBS and Hornady. Their 2 dies sets for the 7 X 57 are $10 and $20 more than Lee, no where near $200. Add another $8 if you need to buy a shell holder. Then in post #409 you talk about Redding and their Competition dies and their prices. They are in a whole different league than anyones 2 die full length sets. Not a valid comparison!

We get it, you like Lee. And thats fine. But you are not comparing the same things.

[LittleLebowski]

I don’t think there’s anything on the market that can compete with the Lee App. They really hit a niche need at an excellent price point.

[lightman]

I had to look that up to see what it was.

[LittleLebowski]

I had to look that up to see what it was.

Please excuse my cluttered bench, but these videos were taken as proof of concept after initial configuration of the Lee App I think that you will be pleasantly surprised by the price on this neat little press. I don’t think there’s anything else in the market that can match what this does, let alone match it for the price, and is American made to boot.

Decapping 9mm:



Swaging the same mixed lot of previously decapped 9mm, yes I tested primer seating after swaging:

[unclemikeinct]

10 percent of my reloading stuff is "Lee Precision" I'm proud to say I started reloading 40+ years ago w/ that "whac a mole" 20 ga. shot-shell loader. My last lee purchase was a .309 lite wt bullet mold. The sprue plate was warped. Took an email & two phone calls but they fixed my problem for free. I'm happy & their stuff works. uncle mike

[lightman]

Please excuse my cluttered bench, but these videos were taken as proof of concept after initial configuration of the Lee App I think that you will be pleasantly surprised by the price on this neat little press. I don’t think there’s anything else in the market that can match what this does, let alone match it for the price, and is American made to boot.

Decapping 9mm:



Swaging the same mixed lot of previously decapped 9mm, yes I tested primer seating after swaging:

That little rascal is gettin it!

[hollywood63]

Examples: (1) NO ONE, at any price, makes a "better" single stage or turret press than Lee's excellent cast iron "Classic" presses. 2) Only Forster and Redding's "competition" seating dies are worthy of that label, all others are tied for second place. (3) Only those who don't know how - and refuse to learn - to correctly use Lee's "O" ring die lock rings dislike them.

I too can stake claim that I would not be reloading or casting if it wasn't for the price point of Lee items. I have found over time that some of it works and some doesn't. I've also learned to prime off press as it (for me) eliminates a lot of issues. Doing a general search would pretty much show a lot of folks have issues priming on press no matter the brand.. I have and have used just about all of the Lee presses except the ABLP. Oddly enough I started on a Pro 1000 if you can make that thing run you can run anything. My only wish was it was a 4 station press because I load a lot of lead and like to crimp separately. I currently run a loadmaster , 4 hole turret and classic cast. I prime with the classic and mostly on a RCBS auto bench primer thou its not exactly perfect its a hell of a lot better the lees bench primer that I'm sorry to say is a piece o junk.

1hole I could not agree more on examples 1 and 3 only reason I have no comment on 2 is I do not load for compensation's I'm sure they are awesome dies as bought manufactures make quality pieces.

[mdi]

hollywood63; Only those who don't know how - and refuse to learn - to correctly use Lee's "O" ring die lock rings dislike them.

I've been saying this for years! As a Heavy Equipment Mechanic/Electrician working for a large city water and power department I was able to attend a two day class on threads in/on nuts and bolts and the "finer points" of threaded fasteners from one of the larger vendors (a lot of time was spent on how different coatings, oil, grease, etc. affected torque). Even though I had previous experience with a few different types of lock nut the O-ring type was discussed (not specifically Lee, just generically). If one understands how they work, they will have no trouble, no fear of them not holding...

[rbuck351]

I think letting others know your experience with different loading equipment is very helpful. Bashing Lee or any other company because you have used one or two of their products and found fault with them to not be useful. I have equipment made by Lee, RCBS, Dillon, Star, Lyman, Bonanza, Redding, Sinclair, Texan, C&H and some others that few have heard of. I like many of the Lee tools I have used and most of the tools I have used of other brands. I have been a mechanic / machinist for most of my life and like to tinker with tools, especially loading machines and guns. I had read much of the Lee bashing that surrounds the Pro 1000 press and decided I needed one to see for myself what the problem was all about. So, I bought one cheap from a forum member promising I would not blame him for selling it to me. This is the worst press I have ever seen to set up, adjust and make work I have ever used. The Star progressive is bad but the Pro 1000 is worse. The case feeder is very finiky to set up using small diameter cases such as 32 S&W L or 9mm and the adjuster is flimsy. Next, be sure you DO NOT short stroke this press ever. Next is the real problem, the primer set up. First fill the primer tray and then install it without dumping primers out the output hole. Easy fix, drill hole through the primer tray and lid and install a pin that prevents the primers from flowing out while installing the tray on the primer slide. Next is the primer slide. It must be kept full or the primers will not feed onto the primer punch ( you can't use the last few in the slide). Also ANY particles in the slide will stop the primer flow. Now you have a powder measure that leaks ball powders that is directly over the very sensitive primer slide which has a slot in the top to allow spilled bits of powder to fall directly where it shouldn't be. A piece of tape over the slot fixes that but powder can still fall on to the primer punch area causing stoppages. Next is very short cases (9mm, 380) that will flip powder out directly in the priming area if you are not very careful with the press handle. I haven't tried it yet but installing a bullet at this stage before pulling handle is supposed to fix this. Last is the loaded ammo flipper that is supposed to dump loaded ammo out of the press. I still haven't got this to be 100% and one out of ten or so will stop on the discharge chute. There are many articles on you tube on how to fix this press and many choose to prime off the press to prevent the problems with this primer set up. I bought a second Pro 1000 used and finally a new one. All three have the same issues. So either I am the unluckiest guy in the world or I and several hundred others have found the Pro 1000 to be a kit that needs to be assembled and have fitted to make it work. Granted it is the least expensive progressive you can buy but is also the most problematic. I have around twenty presses and they all have there issues some more than others. I have a Lee hand press that I like very much but it needs a hole drilled in the primer catcher to let out the spent primers. If you punch 1 too many primers in the handle you will not like it. Simple fix that could be done at the factory. My Lyman AA primer handling set up is junk but I really like the press. My Dillon 550b will not feed a primer about one out of a thousand if I don't use a toothbrush in the primer area now and then. I can't use the Lee universal decapper, which I like a lot) in my coax because there is nothing to center the case under the decapper pin. There is a design issue in my Redding 32/20 dies that makes them more difficult to use than Lee or other dies. I don't remember what it is at the moment. All manufactures have made a dud or two, some more than others. Lee has got a lot of new people into reloading because of their low prices but some of their low prices have forced the production of some less that stellar products.
I started reloading with a Lee 12ga whack-a-mole set up that I still have. I was a good product at a good price, $9.95. I think these bashing threads are informative but you need to be able to ignore the " everything lee makes is perfect" as well as the "everything lee makes is junk" posts to see if you can learn from those that have issues and why they have them.

[lightman]

I've been saying this for years! As a Heavy Equipment Mechanic/Electrician working for a large city water and power department I was able to attend a two day class on threads in/on nuts and bolts and the "finer points" of threaded fasteners from one of the larger vendors (a lot of time was spent on how different coatings, oil, grease, etc. affected torque).

That would have been an interesting class to attend!

[lightman]

Without quoting Rbuck's whole post I agree, if you are going to bash a brand of equipment you should explain why. Broadly saying that Brand XXX is no good does not help anyone.

[Kenstone]

I think letting others know your experience with different loading equipment is very helpful. Bashing Lee or any other company because you have used one or two of their products and found fault with them to not be useful. I have equipment made by Lee, RCBS, Dillon, Star, Lyman, Bonanza, Redding, Sinclair, Texan, C&H and some others that few have heard of. I like many of the Lee tools I have used and most of the tools I have used of other brands. I have been a mechanic / machinist for most of my life and like to tinker with tools, especially loading machines and guns. I had read much of the Lee bashing that surrounds the Pro 1000 press and decided I needed one to see for myself what the problem was all about. So, I bought one cheap from a forum member promising I would not blame him for selling it to me. This is the worst press I have ever seen to set up, adjust and make work I have ever used. The Star progressive is bad but the Pro 1000 is worse. The case feeder is very finiky to set up using small diameter cases such as 32 S&W L or 9mm and the adjuster is flimsy. Next, be sure you DO NOT short stroke this press ever. Next is the real problem, the primer set up. First fill the primer tray and then install it without dumping primers out the output hole. Easy fix, drill hole through the primer tray and lid and install a pin that prevents the primers from flowing out while installing the tray on the primer slide. Next is the primer slide. It must be kept full or the primers will not feed onto the primer punch ( you can't use the last few in the slide). Also ANY particles in the slide will stop the primer flow. Now you have a powder measure that leaks ball powders that is directly over the very sensitive primer slide which has a slot in the top to allow spilled bits of powder to fall directly where it shouldn't be. A piece of tape over the slot fixes that but powder can still fall on to the primer punch area causing stoppages. Next is very short cases (9mm, 380) that will flip powder out directly in the priming area if you are not very careful with the press handle. I haven't tried it yet but installing a bullet at this stage before pulling handle is supposed to fix this. Last is the loaded ammo flipper that is supposed to dump loaded ammo out of the press. I still haven't got this to be 100% and one out of ten or so will stop on the discharge chute. There are many articles on you tube on how to fix this press and many choose to prime off the press to prevent the problems with this primer set up. I bought a second Pro 1000 used and finally a new one. All three have the same issues. So either I am the unluckiest guy in the world or I and several hundred others have found the Pro 1000 to be a kit that needs to be assembled and have fitted to make it work. Granted it is the least expensive progressive you can buy but is also the most problematic. I have around twenty presses and they all have there issues some more than others. I have a Lee hand press that I like very much but it needs a hole drilled in the primer catcher to let out the spent primers. If you punch 1 too many primers in the handle you will not like it. Simple fix that could be done at the factory. My Lyman AA primer handling set up is junk but I really like the press. My Dillon 550b will not feed a primer about one out of a thousand if I don't use a toothbrush in the primer area now and then. I can't use the Lee universal decapper, which I like a lot) in my coax because there is nothing to center the case under the decapper pin. There is a design issue in my Redding 32/20 dies that makes them more difficult to use than Lee or other dies. I don't remember what it is at the moment. All manufactures have made a dud or two, some more than others. Lee has got a lot of new people into reloading because of their low prices but some of their low prices have forced the production of some less that stellar products.
I started reloading with a Lee 12ga whack-a-mole set up that I still have. I was a good product at a good price, $9.95. I think these bashing threads are informative but you need to be able to ignore the " everything lee makes is perfect" as well as the "everything lee makes is junk" posts to see if you can learn from those that have issues and why they have them.

OK, 1st. hit enter once and a while, makes your run-on post easier to read.

2nd. All those gripes about the Pro 1000 have been designed out of the Pro 1000 currently sold, so it's old news.

3rd. "I still haven't got this to be 100% and one out of ten or so will stop on the discharge chute."
Simply installing a (longer) piece of coat hanger wire will fix that, permenately.

4th. Finicky priming on ALL presses is usually traced to the left-over crud from primer removal, do that somewhere else does wonders for on-press priming.

5th. I can't answer to all your gripes as I don't own/use the other presses you have listed, but have to ask, if the 1st Pro1000 was such crap why did you buy two more

[fguffey]

I went to Dulac, Louisiana with two shrimp boat engines I built. It seemed the engines they were using did not last as long as I thought they should so I intended to bring the engines I removed back for overhaul; it would have been a waste of time.

I could not believe how good they treated me; the first thing they wanted to know was about getting a good night sleep. Before I could tell them abut the volunteer fire department running the siren all night one of the Cajuns asked them how anyone can sleep in the bayou with all of those rusting lee dies. Another Cajun reminded them of al the Chevrolet pickups rusting like the Lee die.

I did not say anything; I did not want to risk loosing my welcome. I installed one of the engines and then went for a test run. They dropped the nets, we fished the rest of the day; when finished they gave me all the shrimp they caught plus most of the stuff they kick off the side.

F. Guffey

[omgb]

I had a Pro 1000 in the late 1980s. I dont want another one. I have used the same Lee lead pot since 1977. It still works. I have Lee dies. They work too. I have Bonanza, Lyman, RCBS, Herters, and Redding equipment too. If it works, I use it. Lee shell holders are just "OK" One size does not fit all and Mr. Lee should know this.

[rbuck351]

kenstone
#1 just lazy

#2 Why would Lee redesign a press that worked so well? Guess I'll have to take a look at the new Pro 1000.

#3 What press are you talking about and where do you put the longer coat hanger wire?

#4 Most of the primer issues on the Pro 1000 are from powder bits getting in the primer slide or primer punch area.
My Dillon spits a primer out of the primer carrier cup on the way shell holder about 1 in a thousand, not what I'd call finiky and a puff of air or a quick pass or two with a brush
between primer tube replacement fixes that.
Priming or depriming off the press defeats some of the design of a progressive.

#5 I bought the first to see what the fuss was all about. The second one was to see if a new one would have the same issues as the old one. It did. And the third was because I can fix them and it was cheap.
I have each set up for one cartridge and leave them set up as they are a pain to change over.

These aren't gripes they are just facts. I hope someone can learn something from my experiences as I learn a lot from the issues others have with different loading tools.
Some times I can help with problems others are having. I have been loading for about 57 years and have picked up a few things over the years.

I believe all the reloading companies have produced some real duds but unless you helped design them, maybe you shouldn't take it personal when someone points out a dud.

[1hole]

Examples: (1) NO ONE, at any price, makes a "better" single stage or turret press than Lee's excellent cast iron "Classic" presses. 2) Only Forster and Redding's "competition" seating dies are worthy of that label, all others are tied for second place. (3)

...... only reason I have no comment on 2 is I do not load for compensation's I'm sure they are awesome dies as bought manufactures make quality pieces.

I wrote it the way I did because both RCBS and Hornady have seaters they call "competition" grade (and charge for them as if they are) but I've neither seen nor read evidence that, on average, they seat bullets any straighter than conventional seaters. The absolute worst Forster/Redding Comp seaters I've seen do better than any other threaded dies.

As a side issue, anyone's costly "micrometer seating screws" make it easy to change seating depths but they don't do a damp thing to make straighter ammo. It's Forster/Redding's unique full length, spring loaded, body-to-bullet alignment sleeves which accomplish that.

[hollywood63]

Quote Originally Posted by hollywood63 View Post
Examples: (1) NO ONE, at any price, makes a "better" single stage or turret press than Lee's excellent cast iron "Classic" presses. 2) Only Forster and Redding's "competition" seating dies are worthy of that label, all others are tied for second place. (3)

...... only reason I have no comment on 2 is I do not load for compensation's I'm sure they are awesome dies as bought manufactures make quality pieces.

Holey smokers should have proof read that again..................competition................ ........................................both...... .........hey so I had a couple chilly ones

[omgb]

Not too sure what the APP press is designed to cure. I have a Dillan crimp remover. I can’t see this is an improvement. As to it’s sizing function, it doesn’t apply lube, you have to use tumble lube. That adds a step. No thanks. My T7 lets me load all of my dies and use my existing shell holders. I think I’ll pass on this one

[LittleLebowski]

Not too sure what the APP press is designed to cure. I have a Dillan crimp remover. I can’t see this is an improvement. As to it’s sizing function, it doesn’t apply lube, you have to use tumble lube. That adds a step. No thanks. My T7 lets me load all of my dies and use my existing shell holders. I think I’ll pass on this one

Does your Dillon or T7 swage? The Lee App is an inexpensive way to swage brass and bullets and recap really fast.

[Kenstone]

Not too sure what the APP press is designed to cure. I have a Dillan crimp remover. I can’t see this is an improvement. As to it’s sizing function, it doesn’t apply lube, you have to use tumble lube. That adds a step. No thanks. My T7 lets me load all of my dies and use my existing shell holders. I think I’ll pass on this one

Have you watched the videos ?