38 Special Bear Load

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Yes, since it does have a stronger frame than the S&W.

[Petrol & Powder]

And in your first post your wrote, "I am looking to develop a "BEAR" load for when we go hiking in the mountains."

Is there some reason you put the word Bear in quotes and used all caps?

[Petrol & Powder]

Is that somehow different than writing the word bear without quotes and capital letters?

Or is there some insinuation that I'm missing?

[1006]

I would sell the SP101—get a Glock 20, load it with Buffalo Bore or Cor-Bon. 15 rounds of 10mm in an easy to carry light package. Keep the S&W as a carry gun.

[Outpost75]

Sure, send them and I'll test them in both 38 SPL and 357 Magnum cases.

10-4 will do soon.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think it is a good idea for responsible, law abiding adults to carry a handgun.
If that responsible, law abiding adult wishes to carry a handgun while hiking - GREAT !

What I don't understand is the need to "justify" your decision to carry a handgun in the woods by saying it is for a potential black bear attack.

[jonp]

You carry what you got. I load up my wife's 38sp with 148gr WC with 5gr+ of Unique. Kill the bear or just brain him till she can run off is all the same.
BTW: We have that pistol and with the above load be prepared for the recoil and muzzle flash. Better yet, trade that SP in for a 357Mag SP. Unpleasant to shoot but it will take it if you can.

[Tom W.]

IIRC there was an article somewhere on this site less than a month ago where a man put six rounds from his .45 acp while at a hotel in Gatlinburg. They never did find the bear.....

[Kraschenbirn]

The OP's SP101 chambered for .38 Spl. is the same frame and cylinder as the .357 Mag. version so it will easily digest 'hot' .38s without issue. Several years ago, I acquired a 3" .38 and did a bit of research when I noticed they were no longer listed in the Ruger catalogue. According to my source, the .38s were produced, primarily, for sale to LE agencies (like NYC) that limited their officers to 'standard caliber' weapons...i.e. .38 Spl and 9mm...and were discontinued as more departments switched over to high-capacity autos.

Bill

[Hamish]

IMO, ".38 Special" and "bear load" are mutually exclusionary of each other. Seriously. Kind of like "midget" and "pole vaulter". Might be able to try really hard, but chance are, you're going to lose.

[charlie b]

There have been a lot more questions like these since that professional guide in Alaska killed a grizzly with his little 9mm.

From what I remember he was to the side of the bear and the bear was not charging. He was lucky. Also, that was not his 'normal' field gun. He was guiding where he thought there would not be any bears that day so he took the 9 instead of his regular gun (IIRC a .44mag).

Bears and other animals show up in a variety of circumstances. Some are just wandering around and want a place to 'sit'. Some may be trying to protect their young. Some might be hungry. If you read some of the stuff by bear experts some black bear attacks could be due to the bear wanting to 'play' or it is trying to run away and you are in the path it has chosen. So, a response by a bear to a loud sound or being shot will also be different. Sometimes it will result in the bear running away, sometimes the bear will ignore it and fight harder.

I have no problem carrying a .357 into the woods. But, I know that it might not stop some animals.

Last, whatever you choose to carry, practice with it a lot, with the holster you will use in the field. And know where to shoot from different angles to hit the vitals.

[Tracy]

The OP's SP101 chambered for .38 Spl. is the same frame and cylinder as the .357 Mag. version so it will easily digest 'hot' .38s without issue. Several years ago, I acquired a 3" .38 and did a bit of research when I noticed they were no longer listed in the Ruger catalogue. According to my source, the .38s were produced, primarily, for sale to LE agencies (like NYC) that limited their officers to 'standard caliber' weapons...i.e. .38 Spl and 9mm...and were discontinued as more departments switched over to high-capacity autos.

Bill

The SP-101 was originally only produced in .38 Special. Masaad Ayoob had one rechambered to .357 Magnum to fire factory 125 grain loads. They had a shorter cylinder then, and anything longer wouldn't fit.
Mas wrote articles about this gun and continued pestering Ruger about it until they started offering it in .357 Mag.

Btw, .38 Special brass will easily handle .357 pressures. Especially the neutered .357 loads we have now, which is the same pressure as (also neutered for SAAMI) 9mm.

[John McCorkle]

K, so let's step back off the high horse of carry a freight train or nothing at all and die for a moment....

Seriously, I think we have beaten a dead horse by stating over and over the 38 is under powered, we have seen examples of questioning the OPs intelligence, his will to live and even a veiled suggestion to commit suicide...good grief. Guys. OP asked a question, the OP did not ask for us all to roast him and belittle.

How much of this discussion is based on fact or experience vs what we have heard and what we have been told? I think it's pretty understood that a larger more powerful caliber is generally more effective. The closer you can get to 35 whelen the better. Yes. Good. Fact.

However, if you only had. 38 special and weren't inclined to sell it to get a different gun for the very rare event that you may get attacked but wanted a load with what you already have on hand, what would the most effective load be given the limitations....that was the question in a nutshell. Cut it out with the belittlement and give an answer to the question.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...#axzz69MVNjLws

9mm and 38 +p aren't that far apart in energy...and I think the difference is mild enough to be accounted for in shot placement/temperament of the animal/etc.

It's doable. It's possible...maybe not ideal but with the toolset he has on hand he can mount a respectable defense with the right load.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[Dvdmacdaddy]

Is that somehow different than writing the word bear without quotes and capital letters?

Or is there some insinuation that I'm missing?

I was referencing the outdoor loads by Buffalo Bore. I encounter Black Bear and Hogs at least once a year, while hunting/fishing. Hogs not so worried about as I am usually hunting and have my rifle with me. Fly Fishing on the other hand I have my day pack with food/water/medical/spare rod/etc. Fly fishing with a rifle/shotgun on your back isn’t easy.

I use to carry my .40 Shield and Glock 27 loaded with FMJ in a chest holster, under my fly vest. I couldn’t stand those guns, I tried for two years to like them and hated the dern things (shot the 9mm variants several times it’s just as bad). Not a S&W auto loader fan or a Glock fab boy. I use to own several S&W/Glocks sold them all and started buying Sig or Walther, haven’t looked back since.

I do have other pistols: 9mm - PPQ, PPQ Q5, P229 (my preferred CCW); 380acp - P238 ; 45acp- Sig 1911. I like the Walther tiggers much better than anything striker fired I’ve found, then there is the sweet sweet feel of a hammer fired weapon (my preferred feel).

[Dvdmacdaddy]

You are FAR more likely to be killed in a car accident (37,133 deaths in 2017 in the U.S.A.)

I live in West Texas in the oil patch and those chances drastically increase.


In regards to carrying a 38sp daily. I carry a P229 when I can, I use to carry a P238 if I couldn’t carry the P229. I wanted to get the 38’s to carry as they are marginally better than a 380 and just as easy to conceal. I am really liking carrying the S&W daily, the Ruger doesn’t conceal as well in summer clothes (it’s West Texas we tend to go from 80deg to 20 deg weekly). I am considering selling the Ruger to get a bigger bore revolver and keeping and S&W for carry. I got a hell of a deal on the two of them so I will make money on selling the Ruger anyways (previous owners couldn’t stand the recoil and wanted them gone, I made a low ball offer they took it).

[W.R.Buchanan]

Wow this thread keeps going faster and faster, and we are having a good time belittling the OP (DVDMac) who works in the West Texas Oil Fields and puts up with worse everyday before lunch. BOHICA!

I was going to interject a shotgun into the mix, but Fly Fishing with one on your back would get old pretty fast. But you can't argue with the performance. It could be placed close to you like if you're in a boat, so you could grab it quickly, and still have your revolver on your person to fight your way to your shotgun or rifle. Best of both worlds using that approach, just don't let yourself get too far away from the long gun.

I mean really,,, what would you rather throw at a bear. The Lyman 525 slug with a .550 meplat or the .40 cal 180 gr slug with a .260 meplat. (I had a 173 gr Lyman .357 mould which is close to the .40 cal boolit) The big slug will be going 1200 fps (mild and very controllable load) and so will the pistol round so the speed is not an issue but 3X the weight does make a serious difference.

Just for kicks the TKO for the .40 cal slug is 13.4. The TKO for the shotgun slug is 67.8 ! So there is a big difference in knockdown power. The TKO for your 158 gr Boolit at 1000 fps is 8.0 so you are definitely behind the curve powerwise. Then consider Point "B".

Point "B" being,,,, you have to actually hit said bear in the face with a handgun round while it is running at you. Preferably with the first shot.

I would suggest alot of practice, drawing the gun from your Chest Holster and shooting at Pie Plates from 5, 7, 10, 15 and 20 yards working from close to far so as to gain confidence. Also Presenting the Weapon without covering your body is a good thing to pay attention to, as shooting yourself when drawing on a charging Bear would be counterproductive..

Obviously this would be easier to accomplish with a short barreled shotgun like a M500 with a side mounted sling, and you could have a couple of 00 Buckshot loads up front which would increase your odds of hitting the target.

I think I see your purpose here though. It looks to me like you are trying to be armed with something that would hurt, but in the smallest possible package so as not to weigh you down from your primary purpose of being there. IE; fishing.

However the .38 snubby is just not the answer, but if you had to have a snubby a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special would be a far better place to start. Mind you you still will have to learn how to present the weapon and actually hit a target, but you'd be slinging 260 gr boolits and they would actually do something positive if you hit the target. Nobody would argue with this approach. I don't have a CA bulldog, but I do have a S&W 696 which is what a Bulldog would like to be when it grows up. A Ruger GP100/44 is also a good choice, and much more affordable than the S&W.

In any event you are looking at alot of practice to become proficient enough to rely on any of these guns to keep you safe. You also need to have a look at, and come to grips with, what circumstances you are willing to shoot at and possibly kill a charging animal or more likely a human who is being bad in the outback. People do tend to go stupid when away from Civilization. West Texas has more than it's share of people problems and many don't even speak English, back to the shotgun!

All this would come out in a Defensive Weapons Class (Rifle Pistol or Shotgun) and you'd be better off taking one or all of those classes so you would directly address some of the pratfalls of armed defense. Also consider a "Lanyard" on your Fly Rod so when you drop it while going for your gun you don't lose it. Realistically working this into your presentation would be a good thing to consider.

Sounds like you'll have some fun learning all these new fangled ways of looking at your hobby. Glad we could help and hope we haven't been too hard on you. .

Good Luck!

Randy

[jaysouth]

If a .38 spl was my bear gun, I would get a good sturdy fly swatter for a backup.

[ACC]

I recently acquired a Ruger SP101 2.25" barrel and S&W 638 1 7/8 barrel. I have an old Lee 358-158-SWC mold number 90324. I am looking to develop a "BEAR" load for when we go hiking in the mountains.

The boolits are cast from Lyman #2, are .360 diameter and 164gr. If I seat to the crimp groove the OAL is 1.405in. I HiTek Coated them then sized .358.

According to Hodgon's site the 158gr LSWC with a OAL of 1.475in.

Powders on hand and listed data are 700-x (3-3.4gr), Titegroup (3.2-3.8gr), Universal (3.5-4.5gr), Clays (2.8-3.1gr), and IMR4227 (9-10gr).

I use Titegroup in my 9mm cast loads and have had good results.

I have ladder loads for TG from 2.8gr to 3.8gr in .2gr increments. Hodgdon goes as high as 4.3gr for a 158gr XTP for +P. To me 3.8gr seems like a pretty HOT load. I haven't had a chance to go to the range to test these loads.

Buffalo Bore lists their 158gr LWSC Hard Cast +P at 1027fps out of a S&W 642 1 7/8 barrel and 1043 out of a 2.5in barrel S&W.

Here is what the boolit looks like and seated.

I shoot that bulet in my .357. Mine are 162 grains. According to my brothers notes 14.5 is a good hunting load.

ACC

[DougGuy]

I won't even carry a .3 something for defense on the street let alone dangerous wildlife in a location far from any hope of first responders arriving in time to save my old butt.

I favor a Kahr CW45, with Speer Gold Dot 230gr jhp ammo which penetrated a good 9" into Carolina red clay and exhibited textbook perfect expansion. This gun is not much more in weight and size than most 380s. It packs all day every day without complaint. There isn't a 38 on the planet that will match boolit/bullet performance that I am aware of.

[6bg6ga]

Its amazing what some will do here to increase their post count. 38 special for bear? Can you say 44 magnum with the nastiest load available? If your going to carry a 38 special for protection I get it....just shoot yourself in the freeking head when one gets close and you won't have to worry. Actually there is another way. Take plenty of x lax before you go out and when you see the bear you will **** yourself and the bear will not be able to get any traction when it is chasing you thru the woods.