Don Verna
I had dozens of rifles at one time and the only one that was hard to find ammunition for was a .38/55. But even it could be fed factory if I ordered the stuff. I shoot very little factory ammunition except for .22’s and 12 ga., so reloading is normal for me. But, if selling a gun, there is a larger market if the rifle has factory ammunition available. Case in point....the .35AR will be a lame duck now that the .350 has been introduced. Why would anyone invest in one?
Don Verna
The lever gun is easier now. Get a Henry in 223 and have a 35 Cal barrel fitted and you are there. If Henry will offer the 350, they will sell them plenty in the straight wall pistol round states.
Last edited by P Flados; 01-24-2019 at 12:48 AM.
Greetings
Too bad the 351 Winchester is not more available. We have a .401 Model 1910 Winchester and it has all the thwap of the 414 Supermag ina 336 Marlin But in a semi auto. If ILLinois would just wake up !!!
Mike in Peru
"Behold The Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world". John 1:29
Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.
The 350 legend is a plus in a number of ways.
- For hunters in the straight wall states that want a bolt gun, they will now have a capable deer gun with factory ammo.
- For hunters in the straight wall states that want an AR platform gun, they will now be able to choose from 45 cal or 35 cal with factory ammo.
- For hunters in the straight wall states that want a lever gun, they can hope Henry will jump on board.
- For all reloaders going with the 350 Legend, loss of factory ammo will be "no big deal". There is the Starline 223 basic and there is the ability to neck up 223s (I have already confirmed this works). For dies, the 38/357 dies that many already have will do the job ok.
- For 35 cal lovers everywhere, the gun will be a good capable 150 yard deer gun as is. Optimum bullets could extend effective range out probably another 100 yards provided the gun accurate and the shooter can deal with a trajectory and wind drift.
- For all reloaders with 35 cal rifles, bullet selection should improve.
The gun will have a small performance edge over the 357 maximum single shot rifles. The hunters with 357 maximum rifles tend to be very happy with their guns. They have proven that the round is good, but they tend to complain more about the lack of choices for good hunting bullets more than anything else.
FYI, factory loads currently show a 150 plastic tip at 2325 fps and a 180 soft point at 2100 fps.
Last edited by P Flados; 01-24-2019 at 01:30 AM.
357 herrett or a 358 idc is there also.
If the.351 WSL had used .358" bullets it would probably still be with us.
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Too bad the 30 Remington is not still popular, then the AR people could have a 375AR. It was a rimless 30-30.
Flados points are good ones. Personally I could care less about AR offerings but think the cartridge has potential in its place. We have both rifle zones and shotgun zones in MN but I think the shotgun zones are still shotgun. Still if MN follows the other states lead they might permit straight cased rifle cartridges. Looking at the advances of saboted shotguns and rifled shotguns they might as well.
DEP
Yes, that sums it up very well.
The only other thing I might add is the advantage it holds as a cheap plinking round for reloaders and casters. I currently use .38/.357 lever actions for that role. This round will need a bit more powder buy not much more to get say 1000-1200 fps with a 125-158gr bullet. And being able to load it with carbide dies, using cheap cases, will be a real plus over a bottleneck rifle cartridge. With the challenges of getting accurate .223 cast loads, this platform should be a lot easier if someone wants inexpensive blasting ammunition. Of course those mouse loads will not operate in an AR but this will be a significant improvement over say a Ruger 77 in .357 Mag. as it can operate over a wider range of velocities.
It eclipses the range of a .357 Mag. for deer hunting. It carries 900 ft-lbs to 200 yards.
Frankly, I do not see any negatives in this offering by Winchester. The XPR is not an elegant rifle but an accurate one. It would be sweet in a Howa mini-Mauser.
Don Verna
That is the misguided reason for straight case limits. I irks hunters in my area for two reasons. 1st they allow
modern Muzzel loaders that use smokeless powder that exceed a 3030 class rifle in velocity- hence carry distance. Second they have 38 cal minimum which forces us to carry buffalo guns to shoot deer and there are
a few legal calibres that get into this range, like 405 Win. Lastly about 4/5ths of Ohio is fairly flat where wild shots could occur. The population even in flat portions is thin, major populations around the metro areas. I live
in Appalacian area. Very steep and rugged country where you could use anything safely. WVa is right across the
River. So if there is a 35 cal that will shot in realm of 30/30 it would be popular and legal- don't make sense do it?
The home for this cartridge will be the CZ527. I hope Winny won't make it proprietary and starline will pick it up and the Czechs have the good sense to make it in their outstanding platform.
The cartridge may find success in the AR...but that market is terribly flooded.
May also be good in the Win92/Mar94 sized leverguns, but they've never made one in max.
One thing I don't like about that cartridge is it headspaces on the mouth, and most jacketed .357 are meant for revolver duty and most .358 are meant for lever gun duty...both with roll crimps. Methinks that they better sort out getting a good taper crimp on these or a crimp on the case body.
Since we're in the levergun section and talking about a straight walled case for special DNR zones that prohibit bottlenecks or cases that are too long. The easy way to go would be to get a marlin 336. Get a 1894 Marlin 357barrel and ream it to 357Max. Shorten the ring on the front of the 336 bolt about .005"-.010" so you can actually headspace it and not have a false headspace reading caused by no gap between the bolt and barrel. Deepen the extractor and ejector cuts for the smaller rim. Put the 1894 barrel (or make your own) on the 336 and modify the carrier to work with the shorter and narrower 357Max cartridge. Do it right and it will feed 38, 357mag and max. Why Marlin doesn't do it is a very good question. The 336 action is already used for the 308 Marlin which runs around 47Kpsi. So from a gas handling angle we know Marlin feels safe with it at 47Kpsi and if you limit a 357 Maximum load to 47Kpsi you will match what the 350 Legend velocity runs according to the Winchester site. Using a 20" barrel (same as what they rate the legend with) a 180gr HCFN speer, 22.4gr W296, 2.145" COL, 2111 fps (Quickload guess which for 357max/357AR I've found to be usually just below the chrony average). Sure looks like it's the same performance. Need to cut the front sight, mag tube and forearm hanger dovetails on mine with an octagon barrel but it will feed fire and extract these 38/357mag/357Max cartridges with the mag tube held on with some "gunsmithing duct tape".
Last edited by Moleman-; 01-24-2019 at 10:10 PM. Reason: add pic
I built a Ar15 carbine upper in .30 Herrett Rimless last fall. It is made from a trimmed and formed 6.8SPC cartridge case. The 6.8 SPC is a direct descendant of the 30 Remington case. Its just shorter and necked up to 30 caliber. Its formed with a 30 Herrett sizing die and and 6.8 SPC shellholder. With the right powder and bullet, its equal to a 30-30 Win.
With that thought, I'd jump at a 35-30 Winchester 94 or a 35 remington bolt or lever-action rifle also.
I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
Bona Fide member of the Jeff Brown Hunt Club
More info
SAMMI has approved the cartridge!
https://thereloadersnetwork.com/2019...ing-shot-show/
CW
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Come visit my RUMBLE & uTube page's !!
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NRA Life member • REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.
Come visit my RUMBLE & uTube page's !!
https://www.RUMBLE.com/user/Cwlongshot
https://youtube.com/channel/UCBOIIvlk30qD5a7xVLfmyfw
Check the date on the reamer print. That might not be the final version.
There's an easier way to make a lever gun legal for Indiana (which allows bottle necks but limits to 1.8" long) public lands...357 Herrett. Will work with Win 94/Mar336/Mossy464 etc. Just a straight forward rebarrel. No messing with the bolt. No messing with the extractor. The 200 grain FTX boolit is the obvious jacketed choice here. And many gas check cast boolits work as well.
For Ohio you just get something in 375 Winchester. Starline is making the brass now.
What's cool about the Legend is that it should work in the .223 envelope. Not that I am interested in AR15s in this cartridge. But I think the small frame bolt actions would be a great home for this cartridge.
I was all hot to get a ruger no1 or no3 coverted to max. Now I think I will wait and see what comes out in Legend. Wouldn't be surprised to see a Ruger no1 in it or a CZ527. Both of those I'd snap up, especially iff the CZ was offered in Left hand.
How can it be a blow out 223 rem when the casehead on that print is 0.015" larger than a 223 casehead?
BB
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |