44 mag rifle vertical stringing

[T-Bird]

I have an H+R single shot 44 mag rifle that I have had for several years. I have used it for a close range deer gun, using mainly sub 44 mag level loads and taking advantage of the longer bbl to get adequate velocity for hunting. Doing this, I have also a very low recoil, low noise, effective deer rifle ideal for kids and people that don't really like recoil (me). Lately I decided to try heat it up a bit and get a little closer to 44 mag level loads so I could maybe stretch the range a bit. I found a lb of AA #7 in a pawn shop on sale for $21 which is CHEAP here. I loaded up some hi-tek coated 429421 sized .430 over 15.5 gr AA#7 and was able to get fairly consistent 11/4" to 11/2" round groups at 50 yds. The surprise came when I moved the target to 100 yds yesterday. I shot 5 shots at a 11/2' round circle from sandbags with the forearm rested on an adjustable Caldwell cradle (the same setup I always use) and got a 10" tall vertical string with the top hole right beside the spot. I don't see how that group could be "me", I have shot that setup alot with other guns and not had that result. I chronographed a similar load with 3 shots earlier (15gr) and got 2 in the 1480"s fps and 1 that was 1501fps. I added another 1/2 grain and it shot to the same POI at 50 and just as accurately, so I tried that one at 100 but didn't chrono it. I don't see how velocity variation could be responsible for this degree of stringing but maybe it is, I didn't chrono the 15.5gr load. Does anyone have any ideas I haven't considered?

[Wayne Smith]

First, shoot the same load but with the gun not touching the rest, just resting your hand on the rest. This will make a difference, especially with single shots and lever guns. Then report back.

[Rick Hodges]

If you shot round 1 1/2" groups and then suddenly 10"...I would check the scope and mounts first. Something is moving.

[T-Bird]

thank's Wayne, will do this PM.

[T-Bird]

the round groups were at 50 yds. The 10" 100 yd string was vertical, almost perfectly. Shouldn't I have gotten some stringing at 50 if it was the scope?

[Rick Hodges]

the round groups were at 50 yds. The 10" 100 yd string was vertical, almost perfectly. Shouldn't I have gotten some stringing at 50 if it was the scope?

It depends on when the scope/mount let loose. If it still is shooting 1 1/2" groups at 50....it isn't the scope. I thought you said the first group at 100 was 1.5" and then it started stringing.

[mdi]

How many bad strings did you get? I'd try at least once more, slow shooting to keep barrel heat low. There are a bunch of easy Handi-Rifle accuracy fixes that I found here http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php Scroll down to the H&R section and there are several sub forums dedicated to the H&R rifles (the forearm attachment and pressure on the barrel are contributors to vertical stringing).

FWIW, I enjoy my Handi-rifle in 223 and 30-30 and some of the "tricks" I found on Grey Beard's forums have improved accuracy...

[T-Bird]

Yeah, I've got one in 223 as well. It shoots as well as I can. Used to have one in 25/06- tack driver with 100gr bullets (J word). Wish I hadn't sold it.

[kungfustyle]

Use all the same head stamped brass and weigh your bullets to within a grain variance. Make sure the brass is the same length different lengths different crimps, not so much difference at 50 but back it out to 100.... weigh each powder charge. Let the bbl cool between shots. Most handies don't like it hot. Eliminate all that you can.

[Dusty Bannister]

If your sighting system is secure, and you are shooting with the hands supported by the rest I have to ask if the cases are slightly sooted after firing your rounds. The reason I ask is that the Accurate Arms manual suggested starting load for the cast bullet you are using is 15.8 grains of Accurate #7. If your cases have been reloaded you might have lost the ability to seal the gases when you shoot.

Next, does the bullet actually mic .430" and what is the groove diameter of your barrel? There are a lot of things that could be slipping here but I would want to be sure you have a good seal to get a consistent powder burn. I am not into Hi-tek so would consider adding some soft wax bullet lube applied with the fingers to be sure that you are not having gas leak past the bullet if you are close to the groove measurement.

Since you are actually below the starting load, your bullet might be unstable and by chance the bullets are just dropping instead of shooting in a pattern instead of a group. Is the twist rate appropriate for the bullet length and velocity? Your chrono reading says you have enough velocity, but you may not have the RPM's. Dusty

[GhostHawk]

Have you tried putting an o-ring on the stud that takes the screw to hold the forearm on?

Try to support the rifle as close to the hinge point as possible. For starters take the forearm off and shoot 3 at 100. If you still get stringing its a load issue. If you get a tight group it is a forearm issue. Or possibly a barrel heating issue.

That should get you pointed in the right direction.

[Tatume]

Try again. If it still misbehaves, try another scope.

[T-Bird]

Tried again yesterday pm, same load with hand on rest. This reduced the string to 5" long for 5 shots. For fun, I brought along another load- 10gr AA#5 same boolit. This is a plinking load that I use in my pistols, runs about 950 fps from a 6" bbl. Shoots real straight in both of them. Anyway, I shot a 2" round group at 100 right after the string on the other load. I am using mixed headstamp, some Starline, some Winchester so I will eliminate that variable. I will remove the forearm too and try that. I may try to up the charge some. I'm not getting sooted cases, but I did with the #5 load that shot well. I guess the chamber in bigger in the Handi than the cylinders of my revolvers. I don't have a micrometer I only have a dial caliper and it says the boolits are .430. Thanks for all the help.

[OldBearHair]

Process: Check my dial caliper to zero. Measure with ball mike and micrometer then caliper. Same conclusion. I'm happy !

[mdi]

Another "try it"; remove the fore arm and rest the gun on the trigger guard. I did this to see if the forearm "pressure" had anything to do with the gun's accuracy...

[CIC]

44 mag handi rifles can be contrary. I worked a long time to find a solution. It took a very specific powder/bullet diameter to find success. Good luck in you efforts.

[Tatume]

It sounds like you are closing in on it. Keep up the good work.

[T-Bird]

Back yesterday-5 more shots. Upped the charge to 16.3 gr AA#7, all starline brass, tightened the crimp a bit, changed the boolit to a gc Thompson design since I'm upping the velocity. Hand held forearm, same 5" vertical string at 100. I just don't get how a round at 50, group goes to vertical at 100. May do the forearm removal thing today. I'm gonna shoot up this entire lb of cheap powder trying to find a good 100 yd load!

[mdi]

Back yesterday-5 more shots. Upped the charge to 16.3 gr AA#7, all starline brass, tightened the crimp a bit, changed the boolit to a gc Thompson design since I'm upping the velocity. Hand held forearm, same 5" vertical string at 100. I just don't get how a round at 50, group goes to vertical at 100. May do the forearm removal thing today. I'm gonna shoot up this entire lb of cheap powder trying to find a good 100 yd load!

That's the part I like the most, more reloading, trying different loads...

[T-Bird]

Back again yesterday, used same Thompson boolit, upped charge to 17gr- vertical but much worse. I shot the 12 gr AA #5 load with LY 429421 that I was "trying to improve upon" and got a nice 2" round group- all at 100. I don't think this gun likes AA#7!