Propane verses natural gas.

[triggerhappy243]

Someone at some point has had to ask at some point.................. I could not find the thread.

Has anyone used natural gas to fire their smelters?

Is natural gas flame as hot as propane?

I am curious, because i just went thru 6 bbq bottles of propane to smelt 900 pounds.

Inquiring minds want to know. Much rather spend the money on dinner and gunpowder.

[AlaskaScott]

Propane burns a little hotter, but costs more. Get a Dutch oven dome. I just did 1500lbs of lead with less than 30 lbs of propane

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Propane can burn hotter, which is useful for brazing etc., but for melting lead not nearly as important as protection from wind and confinement of the heat. It also requires better ventilation, and except for very small or brief jobs should be used only outdoors.

[BK7saum]

Man, that's a lot of propane. I think I'd use around 2 bottles to smelt that much. Biggest propane saver for me was a wind screen / shield around the pot to funnel and hold the heat from the burner.

[BK7saum]

[TexasGrunt]

I did 300 lbs yesterday on about 1/4 of a bottle.

Stay away from the places that swap bottles. Those things are not full. Something is wrong with your setup.

[cga]

This is what I fabricated to use. It's has a 23 jet natural gas burner purchased from Amazon. Works great. Approximately 10,000 btu's per jet = 230,000 btu's.
https://www.amazon.com/Tip-Round-Noz.../dp/B00ADPD86A

I used a piece of sheet metal to help direct the heat, around the burner.
(Not sure if it was needed)



And a new 20 lb. propane tank for the pot purchased at Tractor Supply.


If you need more heat, here is a 32 jet burner https://www.amazon.com/Tip-Round-Noz.../dp/B00ADPCSMA

[psweigle]

you need to shield the flame from the wind, no way you should have used that much propane. it is a hotter flame than natural gas. As stated, PLEASE use in a well ventiated area

[RedRiver]

I'm at well over 1200 lbs on the same 20 pound tank, getting low though.

[country gent]

A good wind shield around the pot and burner with some insulation in it makes it a lot more effcient. Ive been looking for a welders blanket to wrap around my wind screen on my pot to insulate it some. Hold heat in and help keep me from cooking my knees LOL. A 3 sided block wind break around the stand and pot just above the pot works wonders in a pinch

[lightman]

I agree with the others about that being a lot of gas for 900#. Pictures of your set-up might get some suggestions. My set-up would do 900# on less than 2 bottles. I've considered Natural Gas, especially since I've had a gas line run to my house for a generator. Have not done it though, I'm still using a homemade burner on propane.

If I were starting over from scratch I would build a bottom pour smelting pot with a capacity of around 400# fired from NG. It will never happen though, my smelting days are limited.

BK7 and cya have some nice looking rigs!

[mfraser264]

Have a single burner turkey roaster converted from LP to natural gas as it sucked the LP. Using natural gas melted down 250 pounds this past Jan. and not enough added to the gas bill to really notice.

A local machine shop had the top ring left over from a project - a flat doughnut made from 1/2" plate steel and it was just the right size. Looking at that burner mentioned earlier in the post with all the jets as a refit.

Attachment 189616

[NavyVet1959]

Around here, all the gas services at the meter have an elbow with a 1/4" NPT fitting that is plugged. It's a simple matter to unscrew the plug and install a ball value like this:



I add put an female quick-connect air hose fitting on one end so that I can use my compressed air hose to feed the burner. I've probably got 150 ft of compressed air hoses, so I can move the smelting pot quite a ways from my house if so desired.

Natural gas works under less pressure than LPG, so the orifice needs to be a bit larger. I've found that drilling it out to 1/16" seems to be about right.

Also, the banjo type burners seem to work better than the jet type burners that you often see on some of the propane turkey fryers. Instead of a single high BTU flame where a lot of gas is being pushed through that single jet, natural gas works best with a lot of smaller jets.

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/king...ildCatid=27354

When you start smelting a large pot of lead, the weight really does go up, so you might want to consider making the stand that holds the smelting pot separate from the burner so that you can slide the burner under the smelting pot as necessary. Most of the turkey fryer burner stands are not sturdy enough to hold a really large pot of lead in my opinion. Some are designed such that they could probably be made a bit more structurally sound with some angle braces welded in the right places though.

[dragon813gt]

Something is majorly wrong if you used that much gas. I'm assuming you're talking about 20# tanks and not the little camping ones. I average close to a ton processed per tank. There is some barbecuing use in there as well so it's hard to say how many pounds I can process on one tank.

[triggerhappy243]

this is what i use

[Dale53]

Triggerhappy243,
that is the exact same set up I have used for years. With one helper, I have done 1000 lbs. in a day. My experience of propane is similar to yours.

My propane supplier charges $5.00 a tank service charge and the cost of fuel added. I get full value and a full tank 20 lbs. on his scale as it fills. Tank swap places generally give you only 15 lbs. I end up paying much less per lb. as I run my tanks empty before I refill them.

FWIW
Dale 53

[Tenbender]

Propane burns a little hotter, but costs more. Get a Dutch oven dome. I just did 1500lbs of lead with less than 30 lbs of propane

Propane is more expensive. ? However I can do 1500 to 2000 lb of WW with a 30 lb bottle. Can't run a NG line to my house for less than 10 grand ?

[hunter64]

At about 3.00 GJ for NG you are about 1/3 the cost of propane. Get that burner that Navyvet posted above(you have to open the orifice with a 1/16" drill to convert to NG) or stop by an metal recycling yard and look for a 40 year old hot water tank that has been thrown away. Most of there burners look exactly like that one and just pull it after disconnecting the burner line, thermocouple and pilot lines. Run a hose and a quick disconnect and you are in business. Never have to fill propane again or run out at the least handy time.

[triggerhappy243]

I guess I should add, that I also have to skim a sheeite load of copper shards and copper dust off the top before i can start the fluxing stages. maybe this is why I use soo much?

[BK7saum]

I flux 1 time at least before removing the jacket material. IF the smelt is very large, I flux and remove jackets, them add more range scrap to add more volume. I usually have 300 lb plus in my pot before I start to pour ingots. I may remove jackets a couple of times before I get to that volume of lead. Of course, I'm pulling off clean jackets to sell to the scrap yard as #2 copper.