Attachment 186242 You had me confused there Derek...I thought you fellas were talking about 'the' turret...you know, some of us old hard headed brass stuffers don't know anything else...
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Attachment 186242 You had me confused there Derek...I thought you fellas were talking about 'the' turret...you know, some of us old hard headed brass stuffers don't know anything else...
a m e r i c a n p r a v d a
Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!
“In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell
Yes it does. To use the Auto Drum on an LCT, you need to buy the riser (http://leeprecision.com/auto-disk-riser.html) The riser will work with either the Auto Drum or Auto disk measures.Originally Posted by T-Bird
One thing to keep in mind, though, is what I and Mr. Morris have been talking about: retained value. Dillon presses retain their value very well. If you can swallow coming up with the initial investment, you might find yourself to be a happy man if things go bad or you decide to get out of reloading and need to sell your press. On the other side of the coin, let's say that you buy the Dilon and are very happy with it. Ten years from now the ram breaks. A new one is a phone call away at no cost.
IMO, if you will be pleased right now (as well as five years from now) with the reduced output of the Lee, and can be sure that your needs aren't going to increase above the capabilities of the LCT, then it's the press for you. But if you can see your ammo needs increasing over time, it is really hard to beat the value of the Dillon 550C. The higher ammo output, lifetime warranty and retained value make the initial outlay of cash a lot easier to take.
Now don't get me wrong, I do love my LCT. I just think it's important for a guy to be as educated as possible to make the buying choice that is most appropriate for his own unique situation.
There aren't actually two models of the Lee Classic Turret Press. Lee's turret press lineup currently consists of the "Lee Value Turret Press" and the "Lee Classic Turret" press. In DerekP Houston's post, the top picture is the "Lee Value Turret Press", the bottom picture is the "Lee Classic Turret Press."
The LCT comes with small and large primer seating arms. I *highly* recommend getting the Lee Safety Prime, too. So to try and make this a bit easier, here's what you should get, IMO, if you decide to go with an LCT:
The Lee Classic Turret Press (http://leeprecision.com/classic-turret-press/)
Auto Drum Powder Measure (http://leeprecision.com/powder-handl...wder-measures/)
Powder Measure Riser (http://leeprecision.com/auto-disk-riser.html)
Safety Prime (http://leeprecision.com/safety-prime...and-large.html)
4 Hole Turret Heads (One for each caliber you load is very handy) (http://leeprecision.com/4-hole-turret.html
Quick Change Drum (set of four) (http://leeprecision.com/quick-change-drum-set.html)
And as you said, your current shell holders and dies will work just fine in the LCT, but those dies would also work in a Dillon 550C, too. Jus' sayin'...
Oh, one last thing... you will need Powder Through Expander dies (http://leeprecision.com/reloading-di...ding-die-only/) in order to use the Auto Drum measure as an automatic powder dispenser.
TreeTopFlier on youtube (no, it's not my channel) has a lot of very useful videos on setting up and adjusting the LCT. Highly recommend watching his vids if you go the LCT route.
Last edited by Phlier; 01-26-2017 at 11:32 AM.
"Things sure are a lot more like the way they are now than they used to be." --Yogi Berra
Ok I might've mixed up the names of the product, but they do still sell both versions of the turret. The flat base is slightly more expensive but worth it! Mine was a gift so I got the cheaper one of course, but it still makes ammo just fine (makes a mess with primers though).
The auto-eject kit does just what it says. You still have only the one shell holder but it kicks the round out at the end so you don't have to handle it twice. I bought one before I found out my model wasn't supported so I went all the way to progressive and got a new press.
https://inlinefabrication.com/collec...verse-rotation
My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter
Thanks Yall!
Don't have the LNL but do have an older Hornady projector press. With most of the straight walled pistol calibers you listed 400rnds an hour is easy and 500+ is not hard to do once you get going. I have looked at upgrading to the newer LNL-AP to get the bullet and case feeders and the better case ejector, but really dislike the LNL feature. I wish they would of just gone with a turret head. I also reload 30carbine and it is a little slower to load 300-400 rnds/hr, but much faster than on my single stage press. For me the littler the case and bullet the longer it takes to run them through. I have used one of the Lee Pro auto disc powder measures and absolutely love it. They make it with a pull chain or spring return and spring return is the way to go. I've also had Lee and RCBS progressive presses as well as a few turret presses by Lyman and Lee. Really none of them were terrible but it comes down to you like what you like.
Phlier, "I" have the money for the Dillon, but "we" might not agree! I get the whole value holding, life time warranty thing that Dillon offers. I can't see getting out of reloading unless I get so disabled that I can't go to the woods so I probably won't be selling. Up 'till I bought this 9mm, I was ok with single stage- ok, I will admit that I thought it a little slow for the other pistol cals, but rifle-I was good. I'm 63, I guess whatever I buy doesn't have to last 50 yrs! I will continue to ponder, I really appreciate the info and the considerable time you guys spent in responding to my questions. Shoot Straight, T-Bird
Last edited by T-Bird; 01-26-2017 at 03:03 PM.
Not Phlier...
I have found the auto drum to have a much stiffer spring than the auto disc, and can be problematic.
Either way, I strongly suggest you get/use a riser for any Lee powder measure.
Attachment 186265
thank me later,
How is it problematic? I haven't yet run into a problem with the Auto Drum, but would like to know what to be on the lookout for. Is it only a problem if you use it without a riser?Not Phlier...
I have found the auto drum to have a much stiffer spring than the auto disc, and can be problematic.
Either way, I strongly suggest you get/use a riser for any Lee powder measure.
Attachment 186265
thank me later,
"Things sure are a lot more like the way they are now than they used to be." --Yogi Berra
^ ^ ^ Another question about this powder throw...? Does it flair under the throw?
a m e r i c a n p r a v d a
Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!
“In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell
it uses the same lee powder thru expanding die, you just unscrew the "funnel" part for lack of a better term, and screw the powder measure into the die. You *will* need an additional riser if you are using the safety prime, as it will bump into it consantly.
The trick is to setup the die w/out the measure installed and get all the settings/flair proper. Then lock it down with the nut, and put the powder measure on.
My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter
Thanks Yall!
The stronger auto drum spring and having less over travel than the auto disc can cause problems if it is not adjusted properly.
Things like crushed cases, broken measure main casting from improper adjustment.
Some just unscrew the auto disc and screw on the auto drum and expect it to work without further adjustment.
I have found the riser has an internal stop that limits the over travel that is transferred to the auto drum or auto disc.
With the riser installed on the flare die the case flare can be adjusted without the powder measure installed.
I have even stacked 2 risers to clear the other dies.
your results may vary,
jmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTZzBjMuH9o
Last edited by Kenstone; 01-26-2017 at 07:41 PM.
Excellent info, Kenstone, thank you. I haven't ever tried to use the Auto Drum without the riser, so had no idea it could be a problem.The stronger auto drum spring and having less over travel than the auto disc can cause problems if it is not adjusted properly.
Things like crushed cases, broken measure main casting from improper adjustment.
Some just unscrew the auto disc and screw on the auto drum and expect it to work without further adjustment.
I have found the riser has an internal stop that limits the over travel that is transferred to the auto drum or auto disc.
With the riser installed on the flare die the case flare can be adjusted without the powder measure installed.
I have even stacked 2 risers to clear the other dies.
your results may vary,
jmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTZzBjMuH9o
"Things sure are a lot more like the way they are now than they used to be." --Yogi Berra
I totally understand... Let us know what you decide on, and how it goes?
"Things sure are a lot more like the way they are now than they used to be." --Yogi Berra
My thoughts, and they are worth every cent you paid for them.....
If you are just wanting to load the 9mm faster, then get a Dillon Square Deal and set it up for one load and forget it. Use your single stage for revolver calibers. The Square Deal will come with the dies you want and set up. Down side is that if you wanted to switch different calibers then you would have to buy SD Dillon dies and they are expensive. But I never had the fastest switchover time on a progressive press, and I just don't like doing it. Now cue all the other members that will tell me what a retarded caveman I am because they can switch calibers ,with one hand and blindfolded, in two minutes flat.
For half the money of the Square Deal, you can have a Lee Classic Turret. Allows you to use your dies and inspect your round at every stage. And you get to use your dies. No shell plates or pins to worry about, just change the shell holder and turret. I think it's the fastest caliber change and the cheapest.
Another option, and the one I use, is a Redding T7. Just a shell holder change and enough holes to fit two calibers, I use it for 38SP and 357mag different loads and. Purposes. I would put it up against any single stage any day. It's strong and accurate. About 2/3rd of the Square Deal. But would be a bit slow for making allot of 9mm.
Lefty
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll be needing that for squirrels and such.....
Unlike most here I don't care for Dillon 550's. My first Dillon was a 450. Sold that for more than I paid for it and upgraded to a 550. Just before the 650 came out purchased a second 550 than the 650 came out and I purchased one. I now have three 650's, two 1050's as a RL 1000. Sold both 550's. I don't uses progressives without auto advance and enough holes for a powder check die.
I am now finding myself asking questions...
I have a 550 and am wanting something faster and with a case feeder. My idea is set the 550 up for large primer, then I can load 9mm and .223 on the new progressive set up for small primer.
Now the question...Dillon 650 or Hornady ammoplant? Both are about the same price loaded out with case feeder, but the ammoplant has a bulletfeeder...?!?
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That's a tough one. If you want the bullet feeder then go with the Hornady. Be aware though that the bullet feeder only works with pistol bullets.
Semper Fi!
Currently casting for .223, .308, .30-06, .30-40 Krag, 9mm, .38/.357, 10mm, 44 Mag and 45 ACP.
I like strange looking boolits!
NRA Patriot Life Endowment member.
Whatever you do, DO NOT buy a Dillon RL-550B. DO NOT.
Instead, buy this one: http://www.dillonprecision.com/rl-550c_8_1_23594.html
Would be nice if they put up decent pictures to see the design change. While I understand it, it's not like the 450/550/550B presses are inferior in anyway. I really like the sold top of the 450 but understand why people want removable tool heads.
I have posted this before on several different websites. Dillon owners and passionate about their products and justifiably so, they make excellent products. However, other manufacturers make pretty good stuff or they wouldn't be in business long.
Which is Better? What’s best?
This question usually ignites a firestorm of of "Blue verses Red verses etc." What you are not going to find is very many people that have actually loaded on BOTH DILLON AND HORNADY. I have loaded on the Dillon SDB, 550, 650, 1050 and the Hornady LNL. I have been hand loading for over 50 years.
I currently own a Hornady LNL and a Dillon SDB. I also have, 2 MEC 9000G Shotgun presses and 3 single stage RCBS presses.
Here is my perspective. And, remember, this is just MY OPINION:
Consider the Hornady Lock and Load Progressive. It’s cheaper than the Dillon and has several features that, IMHO are better than Dillon.
Dillon Precision has been on the market since late 1970’s or early 1980 and have set the standard for outstanding customer service. Hornady started business in 1949 producing bullets. In 1971 they started producing reloading equipment. Other manufacturers have since copied Dillon’s wonderful customer service. Speaking from experience, Hornady’s customer service is equal to Dillon. As a result of customer service, Dillon users are very dedicated to their blue presses.
Dillon presses are EXCEPTIONAL and do an exceptional job reloading. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied, when you ask the question “Which is better?”, you get swamped with comments like, "The Hornady LNL is Junk!" If you asked if they have ever loaded on the LNL and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the LNL and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the LNL. However, there have been those that sold their red presses and bought blue. I can also unequivocally state, based on my experience, that HORNADY has equal customer service. You just have to decide what you like best. Some times it’s just the color, red or blue!!
IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and, most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It is sliding bar type measure. It meters ball type powder well but, flake type powder less so. Extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures, irregardless of design. Be advised that flake powder has been known to “leak” around the Dillon sliding bar as it is activated back and forth. Particularly if the sliding bar is worn. The LNL powder measure is a rotary barrel design that handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. A rotary barrel is the same design used by RCBS, Sinclair and other manufacturers. I have never heard of a rotary type measure “leak”. Also, it is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST. I have never heard of a LNL owner that has more than one powder measure. There is no need. It is easy to adjust. Many LNL owners, myself included, own several "Powder Dies" that are pre-adjusted to load a specific case. (Note: Powder measure fits into the Powder Die.) Each LNL powder die costs about $24. A Dillon powder measure costs $92.95.
Also, IMHO, the Dillon de-priming/priming system is less reliable than the LNL. With the Dillon system, spent primers drop through the bottom of the shell plate into a small cup. It is an “open” system and is easy to empty. However, the press gets dirty with carbon. Whenever carbon/dust/dirt or “primer dust” fouls the primer seating station this causes "flipped" or "skipped" primers. The DILLON de-priming system works well provided it is kept CLEAN. With the Hornady LNL, spent primers are dropped completely through the press into a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. It is a “closed” system. You never get carbon in and around the bottom of the shell plate. The point is the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. I have never had a “flipped” primer. Although, I have had “missed” primers that I feel were operator error (ME!) and not the fault of the primer system. (I forgot to seat the primer!) In all fairness, the LNL primer seating station will also not work properly if the primer slide is fouled with dirt or powder. Please note that neither Dillon or LNL primer systems will work flawlessly unless they are adjusted properly. Users of BOTH systems have expressed exasperation with these adjustments.
If you want a “Powder Check” system you need a press with at least five stations. The Dillon Square Deal and Dillon 550 both have 4 die stations. The LNL and Dillon 650 both have 5 stations. However, the 650 costs significantly more than the LNL. The Dillon 1050 is really an industrial machine and has eight stations.
How the presses indexes is an issue for some people. In reading the web about "KABOOMS" (Blowing up a gun!!), many of the kabooms I have read about were directly traced back to a manually indexing press. This is not the fault of the press but, operator error. However, with a manually indexing press, If you get distracted while reloading, you can easily double charge a pistol case. (A double charge will depend on the powder you are using and the charge weight.) IMHO, a double charge is less of a problem with auto-indexing presses. The Hornady LNL, Dillon 650 and, Dillon Square Deal auto index. The MOST POPULAR Dillon press, the 550, is a manually indexing press. Some people prefer manual, some people prefer auto.
In addition, the LNL auto indexing is significantly smoother than the Dillon 650. The LNL indexes 1/2 step while the ram is going up and 1/2 step when the ram goes down. The 650 indexes a full step on the ram down stroke and can cause pistol cases to spill SMALL AMOUNTS or powder with the indexing "bump". IMHO, the LNL is dramatically better. Of course, the amount of powder "bumped" from a case is dependent on the powder charge, operator and, speed of reloading. As I stated above, you get primer problems with a dirty press. "Bumped" powder fouls BOTH Dillon and LNL.
Next, the LNL uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies and powder measure to the press. It makes changing calibers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate that has the powder measure and all loading dies installed. The Dillon die plate costs more than LNL bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the LNL!
Additionally, the LNL seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rock Chucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the LNL is at least as sturdily built. And, in some areas I think the LNL is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the LNL would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case.
There is one piece that can get damaged on the LNL. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 for three and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. Also, recently Hornady sends these out as a warranty item free of charge. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. The spring is durable if it is not abused. I have been using my current retainer spring for about 2 years. I have loaded at least 12,000 rounds in that time. With the Dillon you have to remove small individual brass pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate. My fingers require needle-nose pliers or forceps to remove the brass pins. It is a PITA.
(For the next discussion keep in mind that BOTH DILLON AND LNL shell plates rotate CLOCKWISE.)
Another item to think about. For NON-CASE FEEDER users; all Dillon presses (Except 1050) require you to use BOTH hands to insert brass and bullets on the press. The Dillon 650, 550 and, SDB operates as follows;
1. Right hand inserts an empty case at the right, front side of the press.
2. Left hand then sets the bullet on the case mouth at the left, rear side of the press.
3. Right hand then activates the operating handle.
4. For Dillon 550 only, Left hand manually rotates shell plate.
5. You then release the operating handle and insert another case with your right hand and so forth. (Right, left, right, left, right, left)
(Note: With the Dillon 550 you also have to manually rotate the shell plate at step 4. Most people do this with their LEFT hand.)
With the Dillon, “right-left-right-left” hand operating procedure, clockwise rotation and, the fact that you start your loading process at the front, right side of the press, your bullet seating die is at the rear, left side of the press. Why is this important? The Dillon powder measure drops powder into the case and the case is rotated clockwise to the REAR of the press to the bullet seating die. It is very difficult to see inside of the case to see the gunpowder. Many Dillon owners rig up flashlight, mirror or, believe it or not, a video camera to “look” into the case to see the powder charge.
With the LNL you start your loading process at the REAR, left side of the press. As your case rotates clockwise, after the powder is dropped, your case is directly in the front of the press and the bullet is seated directly in front of the person operating the press. Is is VERY EASY to look directly into the case to see the powder charge. Even though I use a “Powder Check” die. I look directly into each case as I am loading. I have never had a squib load OR a double charge. This is not to say that it can’t happen. It can. I just haven’t experienced one.
Loading cases and bullets with the left hand is very natural to me. Others may really dislike this feature and prefer the right/left/right/left/right operation of Dillon. Please note that a case feeder eliminates this operation and both Dillon and LNL only load bullets on the left side of the press. Dillon at the back of the press and LNL at the front of the press.
Dillon Customer service is legendary. You can buy a used Dillon press that is a total wreak and they will rebuild or send you a new one for about $50-$100 bucks. Any parts you break will be replaced free of charge. Hornady service, in my experience, is equal. When I needed some replacement springs that broke do to age, Hornady replaced them free of charge. They will also rebuild your press if it needs it. I think most other manufacturers are matching Dillon’s service. Dillon raised the bar pretty high for customer service and other companies see how devoted customers are to the BLUE presses. I do feel that is one of the primary reasons Dillon’s prices are HIGH. But of course, I have no way of knowing that.
You can load anything on both the Dillon and LNL from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo 99% of the time. After using the LNL, I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone.
In summary, the Hornady LNL has all the features of the Dillon 650 but, is much cheaper. However, the Dillon automatic case feeder is about $50 cheaper than the Hornady. Changing calipers on the LNL is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the LNL is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. I bought the LNL and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my LNL and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!"
For the reasons you mentioned Lefty, I ordered a Lee Classic Turret yesterday, got the auto drum measure to go with it. I think it will fit my needs. Will eventually get some spare drums so I can have some preset charges, maybe a few extra turrets too so I won't even have to set up the dies when I change over cals. The Lee stuff is cheap enough that you can do that w/o breaking the bank.
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