Skool me on the scout scope.

[ironhead7544]

The Burris Scout scope works just fine. Takes a bit to get used to it but once you do, it is very fast. Also allows easy access to the action of a bolt rifle.

[ironhead7544]

I have the Burris 2.75X which I think was the first of them, and after experimenting with taping it on a rifle or two, have never fitted it to anything. I believe Jeff Cooper was thinking of a unitary power scope, or not much more, with the aim of having the pictures formed by the two eyes merge, one with crosshairs and the other with an unobstructed view. It is possible that he was inspired by WDM Bell's drawings of the quite different sight pictures obtained on an elephant, with open sights, when both eyes were open and only one. The former gives a much more inclusive picture, with a ghostly see-through rifle superimposed upon it.

One problem for me is that I don't have binocular vision, and never did. I have permanent double vision, which I have learned to live with, partly because I also had the good fortune to be abominably short-sighted, and could have just one eye corrected for long distances. When you get used to it, it is nothing like as troublesome as the same condition temporarily, on a Saturday night.

So this is conjecture, but it wouldn't surprise me if the scopemakers thought the market needed power, and went for too much to make the merging of images easy. I bought the scope with the intention of using it on a Martini, which needs space above the breechblock. But they have made it one-size-fits-all, to suit longer bolt actions, so the eye relief is longer than most of us need.

Magnification isn't as important at many people think. I got good service from my Weaver steel K1.5. I recently bought an old K1 shotgun scope, but found it a disappointment, as for me it gives an image slightly under life size, and you can have too much (Or should it be too little) of a good thing. A scope I really like, with just the right eye relief of five inches or so for a small Martini, is the now discontinued Tasco Bantam. It is short and light, with a slightly stippled finish which means you could touch up any scratches quite well. Mine, unfortunately, is the version without a front bell, but they also made a 2.5 X 32, which appears occasionally on eBay.

Check out the Vortex 1X scope. It is about 1.2 or 1.3 actual power. 90 foot field of view at 100 yards. Works like iron sights you dont have to align. Eye relief should be long enough for you. I have then on 4 carbines.

I can quickly adjust the focus for use without my glasses or with my reading glasses. Lifetime Warranty, too.

[yondering]

[QUOTE=buckshotshoey;3839928]

I have one of these sights on a 12g slug barrel, the middle one in your pic I believe.

It is a neat sight, and very fast to aquire a sight picture. I don't think it's quite as good for precision, but is perfect for a shotgun slug barrel. I wouldn't mind it on a lever action as well.
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Its going on my Henry. Dont care for the semi buckhorn that came with it. It might have been ok 10 years ago, but my eyes have went south in what seems like a hurry. This should give me a better view of the target. The semi buckhorn and front bead block out more then half the target. If this dont get the job done, Ill have to go red dot. I just dont like the looks of a scope on a lever gun. I temporarily mounted (tape) my sons Eotec on the Henry to see what it would look like. IT LOOKED BUTT UGLY TO ME!

Yeah that sight is a lot better than a buckhorn, big improvement. I think you'll like it, given what you've described.

I agree on looks of a red dot on a lever action, although they can work well if done right. I wouldn't use an Eotech though; there are lots of smaller and better options. Look at Leupold's Deltapoint Pro for a real minimalist red dot; they don't look too bad on a lever gun, and the glass is clear enough to work really well (unlike the Trijicon RMR, which I really don't like on a rifle because of the glass). The T1 clone that Primary Arms makes (the MD-ADS sight) is a good option too, for a very reasonable price. It's smaller than an Eotech, but still bigger than a Deltapoint. Any T1 mounts work.

[eagle27]

The scout scope does have advantages over a reflex type sight, a magnified picture, a fine aiming point and much superior for working up loads on targets. The scope can be used with one eye shut as most do when using a scope or both eyes open as you have to with a reflex sight which does give a good view of the whole picture. I found the reflex sight difficult to use when working up loads on a target where when trying hard to get a good steady sight picture and trigger control my eyes would start to lose the dot, plus of course most dots are too big for precise target shooting.
The scout scope gives the best of both worlds IMO. The magnification available with the scope also aids seeing animals in bush and threading bullets through bush on stationary shots. It is not always about shooting moving targets.
If you are going the scout scope way best to invest in a good one. The M8 2x Leupold EER scope is probably about the best to be had, I think the later model maybe a 2.5x.

Because of the 20mm objective on the lighter and compact scout scopes e.g. the M8 Leupold, the light gathering and FOV are not as good as found on normal larger objective lens scopes, hence you need to go for quality optics to get the best from the Scout scope.
I replaced a Single Point green dot reflex sight on my 404J with a 2x Leupold and it has given nearly 30 years service.

[yondering]

The M8 2x Leupold EER scope is probably about the best to be had,

I agree that the Leupold scout scope is the best one out there, but the EER is a pistol scope, not a scout scope. It may seem like a small distinction, but in use there is a big difference. Leupold makes an IER scope specifically for scout rifles; that is the best one to be had. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? Here:
https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shoo...-ier-2-5x28mm/

Mine was the earlier version, I thought it was either 1.75x or 2.25x, some odd number, but maybe it was 2x? That was about 15 years ago though.

[buckshotshoey]

[QUOTE=yondering;3840773]

Yeah that sight is a lot better than a buckhorn, big improvement. I think you'll like it, given what you've described.

I agree on looks of a red dot on a lever action, although they can work well if done right. I wouldn't use an Eotech though; there are lots of smaller and better options. Look at Leupold's Deltapoint Pro for a real minimalist red dot; they don't look too bad on a lever gun, and the glass is clear enough to work really well (unlike the Trijicon RMR, which I really don't like on a rifle because of the glass). The T1 clone that Primary Arms makes (the MD-ADS sight) is a good option too, for a very reasonable price. It's smaller than an Eotech, but still bigger than a Deltapoint. Any T1 mounts work.

Ouch! $419.00 on Amazon! My butt hurts just thinking about it! Jokes aside, that wont be in my budget for the foreseeable future.
Nice product. Small wallet.

[eagle27]

Yes I know Leupold and others do make IER scopes but back when I bought my M8 2x EER scope I don't think they made the IER scopes. Anyway the main reason I went with the EER pistol scope was that it is guaranteed to stand up to the constant abuse from the heaviest recoiling pistols which back then was the 44 Magnum. In my case this has proven well worth the money as I haven't experienced any issues at all with my 2x EER scope on a fairly light Mauser in 404 Jeffery. The eye relief is perfect on the Mauser which does have a long length of pull.
Not so sure what you get different with the Leupold FX-II 2.5x28 IER scope, same FOV as the FX-II 2x20 EER pistol scope but bigger, heavier and less eye relief than the pistol scope which is designed for heavy recoil. Whats the pay back?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I found the reflex sight difficult to use when working up loads on a target where when trying hard to get a good steady sight picture and trigger control my eyes would start to lose the dot, plus of course most dots are too big for precise target shooting.

The secret to accurately indexing a Red Dot type of sight on a target is to use a Diamond Shaped Target Spot and index the edge of the dot on the target on either of the side points. This type of target is also superior when adjusting Iron Sights as it provides a precise point of aim that can be accurately indexed in the center of the front sight. If you can't focus on the Front Sight get your glasses adjusted until you can focus on it, other wise you are wasting your time..

With a 3 MOA dot the best you are going to do on a round spot target is 3MOA. If you index the side of the dot on a point on the diamond target you remove all of the slop. Thus the POI should be adjusted to be 1.5" off the point of the target, but will be centered in the dot when you are done.

Elevation works the same way.

Typically Red Dot Sights are not about pin point accuracy. They are about speed of target acquisition, and there is nothing faster. You put the dot on the target and let fly! Simple as that.

There is a trade off for sure, but for a Hunting Rifle or Pistol to be used at close to moderate ranges >10-200 yards, the speed of target acquisition TRUMPS pinpoint accuracy IMHO, as the kill zone on most deer sized game is a 9" circle. With very little practice you should be able to hit a 9" Pie Plate at 100-150 yards every single time off a rest.

With a Cross Hair you invariably will line up one hair, then the other, and tend to study the sight picture until you are satisfied and then pull the trigger..

With the Red Dot and some practice you break the habit of studying the sights and it eventually becomes, Target bang, target bang, target bang. Plinking with a Semi-Auto.22 will accomplish this in fairly short order.

You learn to not tell yourself to pull the trigger. When the sight comes to bare the shot breaks. It is the sight picture that triggers the response to pull the trigger, not the little voice in your head telling your finger to move.

The other advantage that the Red Dot Sight has is the ability to shoot accurately until nearly dark. If you can discern any target silhouette you can place a shot on that target. It is pretty hard to miss a bright Red Dot against a black or dark colored background.

Trying a Red Dot needn't cost more than $90 for a Bushnell TRS-25, after you mount the thing and use it for a while you will be sold on the concept. I posted pics of my guns with these sights above and I didn't do it to show how bitchin' I am. I did it because they work! And with them on 6 different guns you would think I'm pretty sure of it.

The Red Dot Sight is a relatively new thing, but it is going to be the norm soon,,, and in my recent Front Sight Pistol Class with 34 people there were 6 guns with Red Dot Sights. That's nearly 20%! It's the wave of the future, and when I see Professional Hunter Ivan Carter with a Burris Fast Fire on his .500NE Double Rifle as an everyday gun in Africa, I know they are here to stay.

I realize this is a little unconventional and certainly not traditional, but if you can simply swallow all your preconditions for a while and try one, you'll see it is a better way to accomplish the intended purpose.

Randy

[yondering]

Not so sure what you get different with the Leupold FX-II 2.5x28 IER scope, same FOV as the FX-II 2x20 EER pistol scope but bigger, heavier and less eye relief than the pistol scope which is designed for heavy recoil. Whats the pay back?

That should be self explanatory - you get the correct eye relief for a scout scope. Pistol scopes are intended for use at arms length. Scout scopes are closer than that, hence the intermediate eye relief. The pay back is that it works a whole lot better with the correct eye relief.

[kingstrider]

I have owned a number of Leupold and Burris scout scopes over the years but my favorite is on this this .308 Ruger Frontier. It started as a gunmetal Leupold FX-II scope that I picked up cheap due to a broken reticle. I sent it back to Leupold and they replaced it with a German #4 at no cost. While it was there I had them add VX-3 finger adjustable knobs which cost about $100. Some find a 2x scope limiting but this gun will cloverleaf shots at 100 yards using a good rest and handloaded Nosler 150grain Accubond bullets.

[mcdaniel.mac]

[QUOTE=buckshotshoey;3840991]

Ouch! $419.00 on Amazon! My butt hurts just thinking about it! Jokes aside, that wont be in my budget for the foreseeable future.
Nice product. Small wallet.

I use a Burris Fastfire and a Primary Arms microdot and save the $400 stuff for other projects. The PA micro is a nice little sealed red dot for $90, and a good many of them live on AKs over the gas tube nd manage to survive the heat well enough.

[timalso]

The Scoutscope allows one to look with both eyes open to find a target. Low powered from 1.5 to 2.75 are the norm for fixed scopes and all kinds of options for variables. They take a while to get used to and then they are indispensable. Leupold, Burris, Nikon and Leatherwood are manufacturers with frequent new offerings.

They are not the best scopes at dawn or dusk as light gathering capabilities are less than perfect. In addition, if one's eyes are cross dominant, they can cause,issues.

Prior to purchasing, try a friend's rifle first.

Have fun fun out there.

Regards to all,
Tim(also)

[44man]

Light is the only concern. A pistol scope is the worst but IER can suffer some. Your eye needs a 5mm exit pupil in dim light but the farther from your eye it is the more that scatters.
Low power gives more light with 1X the largest exit pupil and more light to your eye.
I have tried scopes on revolvers a lot and could see deer fine in the AM and PM but the scope had some gremlin put electrical tape over the eyepiece.
I went to Ultra Dots on all mine, 4 minute dot and will never go back.
Adjustable dots gave me trouble with POI changes and those that change the reticle picture the worst. The masks they use in front of the diode are near impossible to get perfect.
I found long ago to keep brightness down and even a 4 min dot does not cover that much at 100.
As I hunt and the day gets brighter I turn the dot on to see how I see it and just turn to that setting needed. I never leave the light on and have not changed some batteries in over 6 years.
It is second nature to dial the light when I see a deer.
I would use an Ultra Dot on a scout rifle in a second.
I worry about rain or snow on the heads up reflex stuff.

[fredj338]

I have a 2x Leupold on my Marlins GG, really like it. It is fast to mount & 2x is enough for me out to the 150yds or so that I consider the 45-70 limit.

[fastdadio]

I'm still out here guys. Lurkin n lurnin. I've bookmarked several of your scope suggestions. This is a great thread.

[danmat]

My sons first rifle 94 ae trapper, 1.5x5x20 vx3 leupold mounted low rings, its small enough to not affect handling. Adjusted properly when you shoulder the gun at 1.5 setting, its as fast as anything I have ever used. 30 yrs. later he still uses this gun more than any other in his safe, ask him why and he shrugs and says, I just never miss with it.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Check out the Vortex 1X scope. It is about 1.2 or 1.3 actual power. 90 foot field of view at 100 yards. Works like iron sights you dont have to align. Eye relief should be long enough for you. I have then on 4 carbines.

I can quickly adjust the focus for use without my glasses or with my reading glasses. Lifetime Warranty, too.

They look good. I'd prefer the conventionally styled one to the prismatic ones, ingenious as they are. I suppose the latter have a roof prism to turn the image upright, rather than an erecting lens. The conventionally styled one is termed "muzzle-loader", but can hardly be sensitive to which end the ammunition goes in.

But all I can find in their current range have an eye relief of only 3.7 to 3.8in., and that is suitable only or conventional mounting. I agree that eagle27's Leupold 2x, in post 44, looks about the optimum position for two-eyed shooting with a bolt action rifle, and would also be good for shorter actions. Even that doesn't quite conform to Jeff Cooper's vision, as he wanted the scope not to protrude over the magazine at all, principally to allow the use of stripper clips. That doesn't matter to many of us, and I can't ever remember a magazine jam that made that much improvement in access significant.

[hc18flyer]

Works just fine! 2.5 Leopold IER, on a S & K mount on my Yugo M48 Mauser. I bought the scope used on 'evilbay' for $200, sent in in to Leopold, cause the recticle was loose(free repair). Only thing better, would be some type of ballistic recticle like my Nikon scope. The combo of only 2.5 power and generous eye relief, makes it easy to shoot. Flyer

[yondering]

Old low quality picture, but this was my VZ-24 Mauser converted to 30-06 in a scout configuration with the Leupold IER scope. Note the very low scope mounting to the receiver, this is important for the concept to work well.

[mnewcomb59]

Scout scopes magnify parallax errors compared to norma eye relief scopes. Parallax is like reading an analog speedometer from the passengers seat. If your eye isn't perfectly centered in the scope, you will miss by some measurable amount. Even with a good bench rest, expect to lose an inch off your group size. My scout scope had a fixed parallax at 50 yards. That means that the eye placement errors had less effect at that range. At 100 yards I could send a round 2" high by holding my eye a little low, or 2" right by holding my eye a little left, etc.

So take a 2 moa gun and add a 4 moa scope... You do the math. It was no Leupold however, so I might get a $300 scout scope and try again in the future. For now I am happy with my virtually parallax free Fastfire 3 which is noticeably more accurate for 2 eyes open snap shooting. If the dot is on target you won't miss, even if you shouldered the gun bad in all the excitement. Sometimes I miss magnification for 100 yard target shooting, but then I hang up a round paper plate and put the round dot in the center and shoot 2 moa and I'm happy. Maybe I can't see 2" targets at 100y with the 3 moa dot, but I promise the dot works great for everything else.