Having some struggles

[theTastyCat]

Hey all - thanks to this fine forum I started PCing maybe two years ago with my HF ESPC gun and HF matte black on some hollow point 45 boolits nose-down on a jig. I'm now trying to load some round-nose boolits (135-gr. 9mm) for the first time, so I flipped the tray over and covered it with NSAF. Looked pretty good out of the oven:



Unfortunately, when I went to remove the boolits to size them, quite as I snapped them off the tray, a good pit of PC near the base would come off too. Here's what it ended up looking like.





Will these lead? Do I just need to scrap them all and start over?

Somewhere during this process it occurred to me that some guys on here had once been talking about fender washers and the like to lift these flat bases off the surface - perhaps to prevent this very thing?

Or maybe it's time to just tumble...though since I've already got the ESPC setup, I'd like to do this way if I can - and they're so much prettier as well!!

Would be deeply grateful for help as always.

[OS OK]

Attachment 178672
From the looks of that tray I think you are using way too much powder and you are having skirts on all the casts.
I tumble the pistol rounds so I can have the flat base covered as well.
Yes...I pick them up with tweezers after I dump the entire tub of BB's in a tray and slide it back and forth a few times to get them to all roll parallell to me, easy pickings and they recoat themselves where they have bumped into each other. I tap my tweezers on the tray to knock off the excess powder and I never have trouble with skirts. I also use parchment paper too, just like it better than foil.
Now if speed and time savings are a driving factor with you, go to elvis ammo he has a speedy method of coating and baking in a pile then dumping into water to keep them from sticking together...just another option for you with Elvis.
Sizing is another thing to consider but you didn't ask about that.

charlie

[theTastyCat]

Yeah, I had to use a *bunch* of powder, plus I still got several that didn't have good enough coverage. Although my whole damn work bench, and thus the floor as well and by extension the floors throughout the house, seem to get plenty of powder all over everything.

AND my HF ESPC gun shocked me about a hundred times - it was arcing pretty bad on some of the wiring. I finally figured out how to hold it so I wouldn't get shocked, but this is wearing thin. I guess that's what I get for buying tools from North Korea.

If I did tumble like this, can I just size as usual after?

And HF powder is a no-go for tumbling, is that right? Where do you get your powder?

Sure appreciate the response!

[OS OK]

You can get your power right here in the forum vendors section, Smoke4320 if I remember correctly...nobody sells better powder, he even has sample packages and he'll tell you whether it'll tumble or not.
Ok...sizing after PC'ing...depends on how much you are going to reduce the diameter overall and how hard the lead is also...generally I try not to size anything 12-16 BHN more than .002" in one whack. Mostly everything I cast pistolwise is less than 12-13 BHN for hi velocity and as low as 7.4 BHN for the HP's so I can get away with .003" if I dry lube them and go moderately slow otherwise you can push that lead back and cause a mess at the bottom of the cast...lead skirts.
I'm in the habbit of sizing before PC'ing and again after...I'm not pressed for time so I just do it that way.

That's funny you getting zapped, it sure gets your attention and makes you gun-shy too!
I'm a retired electrician...I damn sure know about zapps, especially having worked on radar power supplies...ZaaaBaaP! Draw an arc over an inch long and made of electric blue fire too! Funny huh?

[jcren]

+1 on smokes powders. I shake and bake, but to avoid that, stick a small nut smaller than the base of the bullet under the foil so the powder edge runs over the corner of the base.

[rockshooter]

this is one place where bevel base bullets are helpful
Loren

[theTastyCat]

Thanks, all - makes good sense. So just so I'm clear, when you shake and bake, even the *bottom* of the boolit that bakes facing down against the foil still gets coated well? That's some fancy magic right there.

So looked at some results with Smoke's stuff and it really looks pretty fantastic - may put up my ESPC gun for a while and just try shake n' bake! Sure would be great to do away with all that mess and get good results every time. Not to mention something must be screwy with my setup anyway since I have to use a ton of powder to get a good coating on all the boolits.

Thinking jet black since it's said to coat well - man, this is going to be fun!!

[OS OK]

Part of partial coverage and bad coverage is many times a bad ground wire on the tray.

[jcren]

Try some of smokes clear too. Covers easily and flows better without pigment. Looks like powdered donuts going in, come out looking like wet lead.

[tzzler44]

I also like to ESPC relatively thick. I put the bullets on aluminum foil to spray, then transfer them w/ forceps to a silicone mat to cure. No skirts and no sticking

[theTastyCat]

Well that's a good idea too - I love this forum.

[454PB]

You might consider using parchment paper, that's what I use and I can simply dump the baked coated boolits onto a towel when they are cooled......no sticking at all.

[Walter Laich]

when they are cooled......no sticking at all.

that's the key I learned, too. I tumble lube and use the 'paper bowl with holes in the bottom' method to be able to pick up the bullets easier

[popper]

Reminds me of when I started with HF white & 40SW. Wasn't even using NSAAF then. Just dump them off before the PC completely cools, then size nose first.

[theTastyCat]

Wow...so just to recap from everything I'm picking up -

1. Cast
2. Cool
3. Acetone wash (unless freshly cast)
4. Shake
5. Transfer to tray covered with parchment paper with tweezers or similar instrument
6. Bake
7. Cool enough to touch
8. Resize
9. Load
10. Smile

That about right?

Thanks guys!

[tzzler44]

Sounds like you've got it, if you're intent on doing shake-n-bake. The one thing I'd suggest is pick up a silicone baking mat instead of the parchment paper. I've used the same silicone mat at least a few dozen times and it's still going strong.

[OS OK]

9.5 Shoot

[theTastyCat]

Ah! Silicone mat - is it worth getting a $20 one vs. a $6 one? Then would just put that on top of the tray...sounds pretty simple to me!

[Eddie17]

I tumble PC and use Parchment Paper, pick bullets out of the black air soft BBs. Boolits come out great.

Smokes powder is far better then HF, IMOP!

[tzzler44]

Ah! Silicone mat - is it worth getting a $20 one vs. a $6 one?

Cheap is fine. I ordered this 2 pack off amazon and was able to get two separate mats for my toaster oven out of a single one (see picture). The other one is actually used for baking normal food... imagine that!





Also here are a few .30-30 bullets I ESPC'd. No sticking, no skirting. Coated after seating the gas checks.