Smokes green versus red

[mannparks]

Let me start off by saying this is not a criticism ,but I'm not sure what's going on I've had great success with many different bullet calibers with smokes red ,switch to John Deere green and I find that it tends to flake .
Any ideas ?
charles

[Walter Laich]

couple of questions:
same batch of bullets?
same procedure?
temp and humidity the same?

in other words only thing different is type/color of PC?

[OS OK]

Different type PC, I've read smoke's comment on some of his colors in this respect, can't remember what he said…he'll be along in a while to clarify.

[ryokox3]

odd, I have had great results with his jd green

[mozeppa]

odd, I have had great results with his jd green

i too.

[Smoke4320]

many many people here are using the JD green and not having issues so there is something up that we need to diagnose .. step by step .

First and foremost make absolutely SURE your oven is at an actual 400 degrees .. do not and I repeat do not trust the dial or readout on your oven .
This is probably the biggest issue other than people not shaking hard enough in the beginning to get good coverage

second would be to verify that you are using clean bullets .. that there was not contamination somewhere in the process

third would be do you have a fan in the oven to eliminate hot or cold spots

PS I had a computer crash yesterday so I am slightly handicapped trying to rebuild everything (files, passwords ect) so I may be in and out and probably more out than in for the next few days
Lightening destroyed a APC 550 (battery backup and Surge protector) then got the turned OFF computer


bear with me and we will get to the bottom of the problem

[OS OK]

many many people here are using the JD green and not having issues so there is something up that we need to diagnose .. step by step .

First and foremost make absolutely SURE your oven is at an actual 400 degrees .. do not and I repeat do not trust the dial or readout on your oven .
This is probably the biggest issue other than people not shaking hard enough in the beginning to get good coverage

second would be to verify that you are using clean bullets .. that there was not contamination somewhere in the process

third would be do you have a fan in the oven to eliminate hot or cold spots

PS I had a computer crash yesterday so I am slightly handicapped trying to rebuild everything (files, passwords ect) so I may be in and out and probably more out than in for the next few days
Lightening destroyed a APC 550 (battery backup and Surge protector) then got the turned OFF computer


bear with me and we will get to the bottom of the problem

Sorry for your troubles over there…lightning will foil your best laid plans to protect anything. Have had to rewire many homes/business from this thing over the years.
I fear it's destructive power so much that I have not set up my Ham Radio since moving to this ridge line that I live on now. I miss my Ham but I'm too chicken to risk having it ruined like that.

[farmerjim]

Who's afraid of Lightning? I've been struck twice and I am still here. Once when I was about 10 and on a tire swing held to a tree limb with a chain. Lightning struck the chain and burned it in half and I hit the ground and got the wind knocked out of me. About 10 years ago my brother a friend and I were fishing in the gulf. Saw lightning, counted to 15, said it's 3 miles away, no worry, Then every hair on my body stood up and bam, we got hit. all of us are still here although Ken sometimes glows in the dark.

[OS OK]

Who's afraid of Lightning? I've been struck twice and I am still here. Once when I was about 10 and on a tire swing held to a tree limb with a chain. Lightning struck the chain and burned it in half and I hit the ground and got the wind knocked out of me. About 10 years ago my brother a friend and I were fishing in the gulf. Saw lightning, counted to 15, said it's 3 miles away, no worry, Then every hair on my body stood up and bam, we got hit. all of us are still here although Ken sometimes glows in the dark.

Are your ears still 'ringing'? You're a lucky ole dawg! You should have come straight in and bought a single lottery ticket that day!

[Beau Cassidy]

Boy talk about a topic drift! I had a guy come into the ER I worked at one time. He had a HALO on for a broken neck- one of those frames where they drill the supports into your scalp and it supports your neck as it heals. Anyway the guy came in because lightening hit his TV and arced over and got his HALO. Luckily he was not hurt.

[farmerjim]

All kidding aside, When there is Lightning anywhere near, I come inside. I see neighbors still on thier tractors cutting the grass, but not me. OS OK put up your antenna, just disconect and ground it anytime there is an electrical storm (WB5SZT).
To get back on topic, I like Smoke4320s JD green. Never had a problem with it. All the ones that he says DT work great.

[OS OK]

All kidding aside, When there is Lightning anywhere near, I come inside. I see neighbors still on thier tractors cutting the grass, but not me. OS OK put up your antenna, just disconect and ground it anytime there is an electrical storm (WB5SZT).
To get back on topic, I like Smoke4320s JD green. Never had a problem with it. All the ones that he says DT work great.

I really want to but my favorite antenna is a long wire, I have lightning arresters, ground rods etc., have used it this way before when I lived in a tight valley and run over to disconnect everything…the equipment is semi-safe that way but the long wire is still out there an attached to the house.
I see it like a 'midget shooting the finger to a giant'. I engineered lightning protection systems for a while on military bases on the west coast…to really do the job properly you need to put in big grids in the ground and protect everything around the radio also…roof-top included. I'm a chicken…don't want that stuff coming in my direction at all!

Kilo India 6 India Tango Uniform…General Licence
charlie

[fredj338]

I use Smoke's JD green, hasn't flaked yet.

[mannparks]

Sorry to hear about your lightning problem,and thanks for getting back.
temp in oven does read 400 deg. With my lead thermometer,as for the bullets one batch was just out of the mold 24 hrs and the the other group were older bullets ,over a year.

no fan in the oven?
All shake & bake
charles

[Smoke4320]

I know this is going to sound stupid but I have 2 casting thermometers and they are both off after testing
Boiling water showed a small difference 5 or so degrees (no real big deal)
when we got to 400 degrees the differences started to show
by the time I got to 700 it was a huge difference
1 is 50 degrees too low other 30 degrees too low

"other group were older bullets ,over a year. "
I could see that as a issue .. may have formed an oxide barrier
May need to wash those in acetone (shake well then let dry well) before coating

As far as the fan . it really helps to get heat evenly throughout the oven .. eliminates hot and cold spots that will effect the coating adherence

flaking can really only be 3 things
Not enough cure time
incorrect cure temp
or something affecting the adhesion (contamination, barrier ect)

I would really lean toward the oven not being at a true 400 degrees..

one test without spending any real money is to do a very small batch (say 5 to 10 bullets) at 10 or 20 degree increments (starting at 410-420) then see if you have any flaking ..
10 degrees too high will not hurt anything 10 degrees too low can
hang in there we will get this solved

[popper]

tends to flake Need pics if possible. I've been using PC for several years, never have had flaking. I've undercooked/overcooked/WD - about everything you can do (wrong). When I started - really thick coat of HF white the base flashing would crack off. My SWAG is thick coating or maybe JD green is more brittle than others. I've had trouble with HiTek flaking if too thick and it seems to be more brittle than PC. IIRC the HF white was for a Lee 401 TC and there were cracks on the nose. PC shrinks when it cures (cross linking), thicker coats don't stretch much. I never did smash test back then but they shot fine.

[Walter Laich]

...My SWAG is thick coating or maybe JD green is more brittle than others...

respectfully we've had several folks report no problems and just one with a problem. My thoughts on JDG been more brittle doesn't seem to be supported by the info given

just my 2¢

[mannparks]

Better photo

[BILLYBOB44]

To me, I think Smoke nailed it with the acetone "Wash"

To me, it looks like the bullets were not completely clean

I would wash all in acetone, and get yourself an oven thermometer to be sure you hit an ACTUAL 400 degrees...Bill.

[mannparks]

The 45 cal were fresh out of the mold 24hrs can't get much cleaner than that,and not to be redundant but have no trouble with smokes red.