Bare Nosed checkless PC coated C309-170-F

[P Flados]

Was not making progress with my 30 Herrett so I could not resist when I saw a good deal on a 14" Contender 30-30 barrel with 4x scope.

My goat is IHMSA so I was hoping to get good results with my checkless ASBB PC coated C309-170-F boolits.

First trip to the range was promising for accuracy, but with PC on the nose, I could just barely get the ammo to chamber. Also had quite a few that I had to slap closed to get to fire

When I got home, I checked out the fit.

The bare nose 170s had been just slightly loose in the Herrett, so they were just right with PC.

Without PC, the nose is perfect in the 30-30. Just a one finger push gets it chambered and I get just barely visible engraving marks.

I loaded a few with BLL over hand applied regular lube (not fired yet) but I kept thinking about how to get PC performance without PC on the nose. Several previous tries with the Lee 170 in a couple of contender barrels just could not get leading free performance at the full velocities I need.

The it hit me. I started rummaging around in a basket of old ballpoint pens. I kept pulling off the rubber sleeves until I found one that would just slip over the nose. Taped the rubber sleeve onto the barrel of the pen and made a plunger to push the bullet back out. My NNPC tool is shown below "loaded" with a Lee 170.



ASBB HF red PC coated some bullets, stacked them on a flat plate, pushed the tool down over the nose, wipe the base off, set boolit back down and hand wiped the rounded portion of the nose. Pushed the tool down over the nose again and transferred the boolit to the NSAF on the tray.



I cooked them with my standard "light baking routine" (PID controller set for 380 °F, turn off over heat 10 minutes after the temp goes above 350 °F).

I got exactly what I wanted with the base wiped clean. The usual PITA of boolits sticking to the NSAF was but a memory. Removal was easy as pie. Now I have naked nose powder coat (NNPC) boolits.



Can't wait until next shooting day (Friday probably).

[depoloni]

Big fan of PC, I use it myself with great results in the applications I feel it suits best - and I commend your ingenuity!

I dare ask... have you checked to see how those things shoot with a good lube and gas checks? As a baseline. The 30-30 doesn't push bullets into "needs PC to work" ranges, and despite numerous attempts with exactly that same bullet in 30-30 I've personally found that I can't get it to out-shoot the plain-old-boring version as designed.

If it shoots, it shoots! No mean-spirited criticism intended! And hopefully wasted effort here due to those things shooting wonderfully for you! But if it doesn't... that bullet is just as "leading free" for me and a good bit more accurate just shot as originally designed.

[aspangler]

I shoot that boolit to 2050 with 30.5 grains IMR4064 in my 30-30 with LLA. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[P Flados]

At this point, I pretty much refuse to buy gas checks.

I am planning on trying BLL on top of hand applied traditional lube.

However, with 2 different 30 Herrett barrels, the only way I have been able to push as hard as I want has been with PC.

All other attempts have has some leading.

Since my goal is to get consistent ~3 MOA performance with 45 consecutive shots, any leading at all is too much.

[P Flados]

I shoot that boolit to 2050 with 30.5 grains IMR4064 in my 30-30 with LLA. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

What gun?

[popper]

Something else to try, as an experiment - as you want good accuracy. Size a couple, PC, then check coating thickness. Contrary to what some state, weight of PC will not imbalance the boolit BUT - post sizing a unevenly coated boolit can cause the boolit itself to be imbalanced (no longer round?). Probably not important for plinking but for competition could cause a loss.

[fingers284]

Something else to try, as an experiment - as you want good accuracy. Size a couple, PC, then check coating thickness. Contrary to what some state, weight of PC will not imbalance the boolit BUT - post sizing a unevenly coated boolit can cause the boolit itself to be imbalanced (no longer round?). Probably not important for plinking but for competition could cause a loss.

I have experimented with that at 1700 fps in a 30-30 and had a very noticeable group improvement (from 2-3" down to 1" or so)with the bullets (relatively soft pure WW) that were sized after PC. I have started sizing as-cast before PC (same dia that I want the finished PC boolit at)as well. The extra bit of time it takes for the amount of rifle boolits I shoot doesn't make much difference in the long run.

[P Flados]

For this class of boolit (might use it for IHMSA big bore), I am sizing before PC. This "wipes clean" the surface that gets sized and lets me see how crisp the edges are. I feel this really helps me do a better job with my visual inspection during the initial culling process.

It is something of a challenge to get both "near perfect" and desired quantity. I like I doing batches that are at least 200 or so.

I also size after PC.

This batch of "NNPC" boolits looked very uniform for powder thickness before cooking.

FYI, for those questing obtainable accuracy with PC, I have also loaded a few J word 150s that I will be shooting alongside both the BLL on top of grease and the NNPC's. So far I have no cartridge that does any better with traditional lube or J words than with PC. The qualifier to this is that I rarely shoot a traditional / J word loads. Just enough to keep from thinking "I shooda hada tried ...".

If I were shooting lower volume "bench rest" ammo in quality long guns in an ideal setting, I would expect more difference between what I focus on now (checkless PC in volume) and the other choices. As it is, I struggle to consistently hit my 3 MOA goal regardless of my choice in projectile. A lot of my testing results have vertical stringing. I am not sure if it is me (inconsistent grip / hold), my sand bag rest on a wobbly plastic tray at the indoor range arrangement, my gun, or my ammo.

I am having issues with my ammo and am trying to improve. For example, with my 30-30 I really do not think the neck is just right before seating and/or my regular seating dies just do not seem to get the bullets in the cases the way I want. The slight bulge at the bottom of the bullet is not uniform all the way around the neck. I do not want to "spend my way" into perfect loads, but given my past (I ran a metal lathe as a part time job in college) oh how I long for better tools.

[runfiverun]

velocity variations are what usually causes vertical stringing.
depending on the powder you can align it with the primer or use a filler.
or switch to a more case filling powder at the same velocity.

[P Flados]

I do believe RFR deserves a prize.

Previously I have never had a load where I found noticeable vertical spread due to powder position.

I 4227 and Promo (Red Dot equivalent) are my two primary powders (purchased in 8 lb jugs).

My 357 max cases and my 30 Herrett cases with I4227 have been pretty full. Part of why I picked 4227 for my most recent bulk (8 lb) order was that I wanted to be sure to be close to full with the max cases.

Even though Promo leaves a lot of space in the cases, I have checked & confirmed it does not seem to care about powder position. I think this is due to Promo being just super easy to ignite.

The 30-30 with 4227 (I tried 18.8 gr to 19.3 gr) is a whole lot less full.

With my new Naked Nose PC (NNPC) boolits, I did some Point up before shooting shots (right) then I did some point down shots (left, upper 4 holes). Then I shot the left target with 2 more point up shots to get a 15 MOA vertical spread. Even though the vertical is terrible, look at how narrow the group is side to side.



Then I did some careful point down with both the NNPC boolits and some Speer 150s. The NNPC did better that the J Words. I am thinking the cast did better as the near perfect fit nose rider design compensates for less than perfect bullet seating in the brass.

The NNPC still had more vertical spread (3.27 MOA) than I really want but given there was no way the wobble in my hold was less than 1 MOA, the 2 MOA horizontal spread looks great.



I also fired some BLL on grease. The first try with 5 shots with 18.8 gr of 4227 was medium poor. The second try with 10 shots of 19.3 gr of 4227 was terrible. The 19.3 looks like I am hitting that point where my velocity is exceeding the limit for that specific bullet. This is kind of strange because 19.3 gr of 4227 has done good with PC on top of the same batch of boolits.

[Wayne Smith]

Have you cleaned your dies? I recently purchased a set of Bair 38Special dies - well used. I pulled the bullet seating stem and it had over a quarter inch of lube on it. Whoever had these dies was seating on lube! If you are getting uneven boolit seating in your 30-30 and have used the dies with lubed boolits take the seat die apart and clean it. You might be surprised.

[P Flados]

Anther round of testing was completed with no real overall improvement

A load with I4895 and a load with filler over the 4227 did poorly.

One load with I3031 did the best for the day's 30-30 results. Almost as good as the I4227 in post 10 but still ~ 4 moa vertical and ~2 moa side to side. This was with a case full of powder. However even this was tempered by the fact that a second I3031 load with 0.6 gr more was around 5 moa with similar vertical and horizontal spreads.

Some of the poor results might have been the shooter, but after a couple of poor groups I really tried to focus and still got some not so good results.

The most encouraging shooting was with my factory 14" TC 357 max barrel and some of my "standard load" (200 gr Lee checkless with ASBB PC HF red over 19.3 gr 4227). Around ~3 moa with even distribution vertical and horizontal.