need help with 45 colt blackhawk

[mike69]

Just made up a dummy round with the boolit sized at .454 the round fits in the cylinder fine the boolit is a press fit from the throat side so it should be around .001 over throat and .001 over bore when it gets to it should seal up good. My super redhawk 454 I shot .454 boolits with a .452 bore with good results. Have to size and load some up to try

[44man]

Going over throat is not a good idea.
Might be a good idea to lap some more, Ruger barrels are tough. I think your lapping boolits are too soft too. 14 BHN is where you should be.
One other thing strikes me is using Unique at near 296 pressures. Your pressure rise is very fast so even though the boolit is slower overall then 296 gives, the boolit is hitting the rifling very fast.
Rifling in the Ruger is pretty fast at 1 in 16" so your boolits might not be taking the spin and skidding.
A soft boolit might be sized in the choke and then re-expand to fill the bore but it is still a tough proposition when pressure is already dropping. A slower start and a more sustained pressure rise might help. You are only working with .0005" on each side of the boolit so it should not be as drastic as what you are getting.
Why not try 2400 or 296 and accept a higher velocity since you are right on the tails of the powders with pressure? 296 has 24,600# with 25 gr and 10.5 of Unique is 24,800#.
There is no such thing as a light load, only reduced overall pressure and less recoil but to slam a lead boolit with near 16,000# instantly (8 gr Unique) can still make a putty ball.
If you could recover boolits intact, you might be able to tell more.

[jrayborn]

2400 is "magic" on handguns that lead up at the forcing cone. It can work so if you have some you might try it. Also I have successfully used Lee Liquid Alox in addition to whatever other lube the boolits have to good effect in difficult guns.

[mike69]

Ok I have some boolis that are 13.5 BHN that I can use to lap it some more. I do have 296 and imr 4227 that I use in my 454. where would be a good starting point for the 296 and a 260 to 280 gr bullet don't want to load it like my 454 but don't want to start with to little powder in the case. I haven't seen any 2400 in a long time

[GSaltzman]

Leading will continue in my experience as long as the thread choke is present. Having said that I have a few Rugers that have some choke but it is not bad at all and really doesn't cause problems. If you have 4227 I would try 20 grains with your 260-280 grain bullets. For my Blackhawks this has proven to be a very accurate load in the 45 Colt. I second the comment on 50/50 alloy. I also use FWFL and have recently been using Ben's Red with success. The 50/50 alloy made a big difference for my Rugers.

[mike69]

like to thank every one for the advice looks like I am going to try different powder and do some more lapping I have some bac lube ordered from whit label to try to.The 4227 woks good in my 357 and 454 ill try it

[jrayborn]

Bac lube is very very good

[DougGuy]

where would be a good starting point for the 296 and a 260 to 280 gr bullet don't want to load it like my 454 but don't want to start with to little powder in the case. I haven't seen any 2400 in a long time

Yep, 296 needs as high a load density as you can get. It does not like and is not recommended to be loaded below 75% so for loads that are less than about 80% of the available space under the boolit, I would look for a different powder than 296. Save your 296 for when you get it all dimensionally corrected.

[mike69]

Yep, 296 needs as high a load density as you can get. It does not like and is not recommended to be loaded below 75% so for loads that are less than about 80% of the available space under the boolit, I would look for a different powder than 296. Save your 296 for when you get it all dimensionally corrected.

that's what I was wonder on the percentage of case capacity for the 296 the 454 I use it at just about 100% full thanks think the 4227 should be good one to try out of what I have

[mike69]

Bac lube is very very good

that's good to here I am using the 2500 now

[Wolfer]

I had the same issue with my new Vaquero when I got it. Fired 60 fire lapping rounds. Helped but didn't fix. I poured lead laps and hand lapped it out.

Before I couldent shoot 50 rounds before accuracy fell off badly. Now I try to clean it every 500/1000 rds but it doesn't really need it.

You can try different powders but I doubt you'll find cast boolit bliss until your thread choke is gone.

[mike69]

[QUOTE=Wolfer;3581471]I had the same issue with my new Vaquero when I got it. Fired 60 fire lapping rounds. Helped but didn't fix. I poured lead laps and hand lapped it out.

Before I couldent shoot 50 rounds before accuracy fell off badly. Now I try to clean it every 500/1000 rds but it doesn't really need it.

You can try different powders but I doubt you'll find cast boolit bliss until your thread choke is gone.[/Q
Yea going to do some more lapping first the one good thing don't have to go any where to shoot have my own range set up behind the house so don't have to travel can shoot and be back to the loading bench to try some different loads if needed in the same day just have to stay positive and keep working with it

[dubber123]

How slow are your lapping loads? They just need to dependably clear the barrel, and can be fired too fast pretty easily.

[44man]

How slow are your lapping loads? They just need to dependably clear the barrel, and can be fired too fast pretty easily.

Yep, you should be able to out run them.
I never shot 4227 from my .45 but it will never go in my .44's again. It does not like a warm .44, any change in the gun's heat.

[9.3X62AL]

Have you mic'ed your expander spud diameter? Die sets are made with a STRONG bias toward use of jacketed bullets. In the case of 45 caliber pistol dies, expander spud diameters are often .447"-.448". A 45 Colt case mouth expanded by such a spud has the potential to "size down" bullets of softer alloy seated into such environments.

Related to this problem--my RCBS tungsten-carbide 45 Colt sizer die reduced case diameter with both W-W and R-P brass to .469". As-fired diameters of both makes ran about .478"-.479", dependent upon load intensity (Ruger BisHawk). Needless to say, case life wasn't long with that sort of working getting done to brass each ammo life cycle. Case life got LOTS better and accuracy improved by use of a steel sizer die (.476" resizing now) and use of a .452" expander spud with .454" cast bullets (throats honed to .453" for .452" grooves). Size matters, and this rubric applies far beyond just barrel/bullet relationship.

[9.3X62AL]

I never shot 4227 from my .45 but it will never go in my .44's again. It does not like a warm .44, any change in the gun's heat.

Interesting observation. I have next-to-zero experience with the 4227 powders. More of a 2400 enthusiast here.

[KCSO]

If your forcing cone doesn't look like the Taylor in the picture you need to have it reamed and polished a rough forcing cone is a major cause of leading. I just ream and polish all of the ones that come through as a matter of course.

[44man]

Interesting observation. I have next-to-zero experience with the 4227 powders. More of a 2400 enthusiast here.

IHMSA for years of experience. You will not believe how the 4227's behave in a .44.
2400 is still one of the greats. It worked then and it still works. But for the higher end 296 is a Rugers love.
Now I do NOT know what 4227 will do in a .45, after the .44's I have never been inclined to try it.

[mike69]

How slow are your lapping loads? They just need to dependably clear the barrel, and can be fired too fast pretty easily.

I can catch them in a box of rags about ten feet in front of the barrel

[mike69]

IHMSA for years of experience. You will not believe how the 4227's behave in a .44.
2400 is still one of the greats. It worked then and it still works. But for the higher end 296 is a Rugers love.
Now I do NOT know what 4227 will do in a .45, after the .44's I have never been inclined to try it.

The 4227 has been pretty good in my 454 and 357 going to try 296 in the 454 shot some but just at steel haven't really checked group size with a target yet ill try it in the 45 when I get it figured out going to lap it some more and try the 4227 this weekend have to make up some more lapping rounds