Quickload for .22 TCM?

[NavyVet1959]

Does Quickload support the .22 TCM cartridge?

I was experimenting around this evening with bullets cast from the Lee 55 gr Bator mold and Red Dot.

Using RIA mid-size double stack M1911 .22TCM/9mm combo handgun.

4.0 gr of Red Dot would not eject the brass.
4.6 gr of Red Dot would eject the brass.

Loaned my nephew my chrony, so I have no idea what the velocity might have been.

If Quickload supports this, could someone run the numbers and see what it predicts for this load and/or a maximum load of Red Dot in this cartridge?

Thanks...

[cherokeetracker]

Does Quickload support the .22 TCM cartridge?

I was experimenting around this evening with bullets cast from the Lee 55 gr Bator mold and Red Dot.

Using RIA mid-size double stack M1911 .22TCM/9mm combo handgun.

4.0 gr of Red Dot would not eject the brass.
4.6 gr of Red Dot would eject the brass.

Loaned my nephew my chrony, so I have no idea what the velocity might have been.

If Quickload supports this, could someone run the numbers and see what it predicts for this load and/or a maximum load of Red Dot in this cartridge?

Thanks...

Quick Load supports the cartridge but not the bullet. I was able to get a 57 grain Lyman bullet, and ran it. You are over pressure according to the info. Drop back to 4.2 and try it. 3795 PSI and 1370 FPS is what was shown.
Quick load has proven to be on the conservative side. But friendly advice,,, Go slow, as in .2 grains at a time when you have these small cases. Ex: with the numbers I was able to run, 4.6 grains put you somewhere at over 4300 PSI With not proper info this can't be exact of course. But you do need your chrony and measure the base of the cases to see if they were over .002 larger than when sized. Flattening of primers can be a little too late sometimes.

FWIW : Hodgdon Universal gave 1433 FPS for 37161 PSI I like bottleneck cartridges but they ( meaning little ones) can be picky when choosing powders.

[NavyVet1959]

Quick Load supports the cartridge but not the bullet. I was able to get a 57 grain Lyman bullet, and ran it. You are over pressure according to the info. Drop back to 4.2 and try it. 3795 PSI and 1370 FPS is what was shown.
Quick load has proven to be on the conservative side. But friendly advice,,, Go slow, as in .2 grains at a time when you have these small cases. Ex: with the numbers I was able to run, 4.6 grains put you somewhere at over 4300 PSI With not proper info this can't be exact of course. But you do need your chrony and measure the base of the cases to see if they were over .002 larger than when sized. Flattening of primers can be a little too late sometimes.

FWIW : Hodgdon Universal gave 1433 FPS for 37161 PSI I like bottleneck cartridges but they ( meaning little ones) can be picky when choosing powders.

Did you drop a digit on those PSI measurement quotes? As in like "37,950" instead of "3795" and "43,000" instead of "4300"?

I tried it today using the 9mm spring with the .22 TCM barrel. As you might expect, it did not eject the brass.

I'm using pistol primers on this, but I'm not noticing them being all that flattened.

What is the supposed maximum operating pressure for the .22 TCM? I've seen it quoted as 50K psi and 60K psi.

[cherokeetracker]

I do apologize about the comma, or lack thereof. You are right as to where you placed it.
1. the quickload listed the max pressure as being 38,000
2. The design was a shortened 5.56 case. We both know that, and know that the case should handle pressures greater than 38,000.
3. If you would like to continue to use Red Dot, Since I cannot give you closer or exact information, my only suggestion is to go back and examine everything,, and just go slow as you go up in your charges.

FWIW: I have shortened the 5.56 cases before, like for 221 Firball size, and when you do, there is a donut created and I have to ream the inside of the neck. I also have to trim the outside of the neck to get it to the correct dimensions. This being said, I would look for case separation at the neck, before anything else, when going above max. It may never happen with you.
I also do not feel that I have been of much help.

[cherokeetracker]

I tried to find a little more info on this, and saw on net that the 40 grain is listed at 2100 FPS.
You ask about a 55 grain bullet. In theory that should drop you down to guessing 1500-1800 FPS Nothing against Red Dot,
But Universal would give you better velocity with less pressure. And you would still have some room to go up in powder amounts. There may be several others, I was just looking at some that would burn all or most of the powder in a 5" barrel.
I think you need your Chronograph to continue, and I need some different software in order to help you better. I do wish that I could have gotten you closer.
The 1911 platform.....
45 ACP is 21,000 rated pressure
9 MM is 35,000 Rated Pressure
I am wondering if since the rating was 35,000 on the TCM because it was to be interchanged with the 9MM on that particular platform?

[NavyVet1959]

I also do not feel that I have been of much help.

Actually, you've been a lot of help... Thanks...

Armscor (RIA) makes some pretty strong guns. I accidentally loaded a 10mm round with Red Dot instead of Longshot one day and fired it in an RIA 10mm. Although the gun disassembled itself in my hand, after putting reassembling the magazine and and putting the grips back on it (and checking for missing body parts), it was good as new.

8.6gr Alliant Promo (instead of Longshot), 220 gr cast bullet. 167K psi according to Quickload (supposedly 1380 fps).


I think this classifies as a "pressure sign"...

Red Dot / Promo is probably the powder that I have the most of, so I try to use it whenever possible, especially since it tends to be a relatively more inexpensive powder.

[Silverboolit]

Navy vet... Not trying to hijack the thread, but...I am thinking that the 22TCM may be on my list to buy this spring. How do you like it? Accuracy? Problems? Anything would help in my decision making as there are not too many using this cartridge. Thanks a lot.

[NavyVet1959]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but...I am thinking that the 22TCM may be on my list to buy this spring. How do you like it? Accuracy? Problems? Anything would help in my decision making as there are not too many using this cartridge.

I haven't shot it much since I just recently got the dies. The people who have a lot of experience with it seem to like the accuracy and reliability of it. RIA makes a couple of different models in this caliber -- full size and mid size, single stack and double stack. I have a full size single stack and a mid size double stack. They come as a combo package with a .22 TCM and 9mm barrel barrel and springs. They can be had on the used market for around $500-600 and in the new market for $600-700, depending upon the model / sights / grips / etc. I'm thinking that the 9mm barrel is a prime candidate for conversion to a 9x23.

You might try asking some of the guys over at 22tcm.net their impressions of the firearm...

[golfhack]

Red Dot might be too fast of a powder to cycle the gun. I think most folks who are reloading 22 TCM are using H110/W296, Lil Gun, 300 MP or something in a similar burn rate.

[NavyVet1959]

Red Dot might be too fast of a powder to cycle the gun. I think most folks who are reloading 22 TCM are using H110/W296, Lil Gun, 300 MP or something in a similar burn rate.

My reasoning was that since Red Dot would cycle the gun on a 9mm round, there might be a chance that it would cycle it on a .22 TCM round with the 55gr bullet, especially since the .22TCM recoil spring is less than the 9mm recoil spring. So far though, the proof of that hypothesis has proven a bit elusive.

I'm currently working on a .38 SuperComp conversion for the gun. It uses a .38 SUPER barrel, but I make the brass from .223 brass, so I guess this means that I'm creating a .38 SuperComp.

[Travelor]

Before anyone even thinks of buying one of their rifles, go to the 22TCM Forum and read about them. Information on the pistol loads and experiences also. http://www.22tcm.net/

Here is a thread on my experience with their rifle http://www.22tcm.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=780

Also, be very careful of using Quickload with this cartridge as some of the loads shown are WAY too high pressure.

[golfhack]

I just got back from the range where I tested 22 TCM with Longshot. Not anywhere near as fast as Red Dot, but more of a standard pistol powder compared to W296/H110. Someone had tried it on the 22TCM forum with good results, so I gave it a shot with a more conservative load to start. It actually worked pretty well, and does not have the huge fireball and concussion of the standard 22 tcm load - not sure how I feel about that since the fireball/concussion is one of the "fun" elements of cartridge. But, definitely nice to have alternatives.

My reasoning was that since Red Dot would cycle the gun on a 9mm round, there might be a chance that it would cycle it on a .22 TCM round with the 55gr bullet, especially since the .22TCM recoil spring is less than the 9mm recoil spring. So far though, the proof of that hypothesis has proven a bit elusive.

I'm currently working on a .38 SuperComp conversion for the gun. It uses a .38 SUPER barrel, but I make the brass from .223 brass, so I guess this means that I'm creating a .38 SuperComp.

[catchbull@4]

NavyVet,
check the twist rate of your TCM. Mine is 16:1 and it will not stabilize the 55gr Lee boolit. I'm using hornet load data with 2400 and have good consistency in velocity (1700 fps) but terrible accuracy; boolits are keyholing at 25yds. I milled the Lee mold down about .08 and it now throws a 45gr boolit. According to all the calculators the 16:1 should stabilize the 45gr. I'm heading to the range today, and I'll post the results.

[catchbull@4]

Navy Vet,
sorry I misread your post, I was referring to the new 55gr Lee mold. The bator may be a different story, but I have a feeling that 55gr is too heavy and long for the TCM, assuming yours is 16:1.

[NavyVet1959]

I've been experimenting with the 55 gr Bator bullet in a .22LR lately, manually loaded separately from a .22 power load (nail gun blank).

[TXCOONDOG]

RIA 1911 A2, FS Target Combo

Since these were my first loaded rounds in Summer of 2015, I used the Armscor factory (black/yellow box)rounds as my baseline and the average velocity was 2016FPS.

No signs of pressure, got me between 1911- 2012 FPS with good feeding and ejection.

NOTE: Since I could not find a case gauge, I used my barrel to check my dummy rounds. I soon realized that the Hornady dies didn't size the case properly near the head. Using my dremel, I shaved the shell plate down .003" to allow the case to go further into the die body.......bingo!

Bullet: 40gr JHP
Case: Once fired Armscor with a CL of 1.025"
Primer: WSR
Powder: LIL'GUN @ 9.0 gr
O.A.L: 1.252"
Velocities: Average 1911 FPS
.................................................. .......................
Bullet: 40gr JHP
Case: Once fired Armscor with a CL of 1.025"
Primer: WSR
Powder: LIL'GUN @ 9.5 gr
O.A.L: 1.252"
Velocities: Average 1992 FPS
.................................................. .........................

Bullet: 40gr JHP
Case: Once fired Armscor with a CL of 1.025"
Primer: WSR
Powder: LIL'GUN @ 10gr
O.A.L: 1.252"
Velocities: Average 2012 FPS

Been running this load for 15months and haven't found any loads better for my pistol.

I have a few posts on 22 TCM website but I haven't visited in a while.

[Camba]

Have you check which recoil spring (9mm or 22tcm) you have in the gun. Just a thought.
camba

[catchbull@4]

Looked up the specs on the bator and it's .07 shorter than the Lee 55gr C225-55-RF, so the odds of stabilizing the bator are much better without having to modify the mold. I had decent results with the 45gr boolits (no stability issues) but I'm going to try a few different powders to see if I can improve the accuracy. My chronograph has a hard time with the smaller boolits, and is getting flaky in it's old age, so I didn't get a large enough sample group for my liking, but 9.0gr of 2400 is giving me around 1800fps and at 9.2gr I had a couple of failures to extract. Primers looked good on all cases, so maybe I need to back off a bit on the annealing. I've been forming .223 LC brass but I plan to switch to factory brass while I work up the loads for the 45gr boolit. I going to reevaluate the 2400, but I'm also going to try some LilGun and Accurate #7. I just picked up this gun, but have had a lot of fun trying to get it to shoot cast boolits.