woods carry load for 45acp.

[justashooter]

I use heavy loads of blue dot under 225 grain SWC for 1150 FPS in a S&W 25-2, from time to time. it sounds like a lot, but in such a heavy gun it's not so bad.

[Hickok]

I will check at home and see if I still have some. If so I will mail you out some to try for yourself if would like.

Warboar, sent you a pm.

[EDK]

Back in the day, the IPSC shooters used the H&G 68 with 5.8 of 231 in standard length 1911s. I bought 8 pounders...when available!...of TITEGROUP, HP38(231) and most recently PROMO (RED DOT clone.)

This thread has convinced me that I need a LEE 452-230-TC mould to try out.

[Blackwater]

A friend of mine has recently asked himself the same question, and he's settled on AutoComp with the 230 gr. XTP and a 200 gr. SWC cast with Bullseye. The 230 is doing a little short of 900 fps. and will be his deer load for the upcoming deer season where all shots will be under 100 yds. He's an outstanding shot, and I expect his deer to take only one shot each. If all he's got is his lead bullets, he's confident they'll fall to them going a little better than 850 fps. It really doesn't take all that much to reliably kill a deer PROVIDED you put it in just the right place. He's had a bad habit over the years of shooting them in the head with his pistols. At bow hunting distances, there's really no reason why a good, cool shot shouldn't be able to do this, but it HAS to hit the CNS. That's the big deal in it all. A hit in the snout will only grievously wound it to die a horrible death. Those who've learned and trained themselves to shoot really well should have no problem doing this at bow hunting ranges. The main thing is knowing how to move V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y and not alerting them that they're about to breathe their last, or moving only when their heads are turned. On that last, though, be advised their eyes are toward the sides of their heads and CAN see behind them to a much larger degree than we can. Little bits of info like that DO make a difference in the field!

[44MAG#1]

Again, why would anyone use a small meplat bullet such as the various #68 clones when the Saeco 058 bullet is available and has a large diameter meplat?
Doesnt make any sense.

[prsman23]

$$$$$$$$

[StrawHat]

Again, why would anyone use a small meplat bullet such as the various #68 clones when the Saeco 058 bullet is available and has a large diameter meplat?
Doesnt make any sense.

Why not the SAECO 453? A 45 caliber wadcutter. If launched at 850 or 900 fps, it should hit like a sledge.



Kevin

[44MAG#1]

"the SAECO 453? A 45 caliber wadcutter. If launched at 850 or 900 fps, it should hit like a sledge."

How well will that bullet feed in a semi-auto?
I am trying to be realistic.

[johnson1942]

i would think your talking about the woods of ohio and not traveling to rocky mountains to carry a 45 auto in the woods or alaska. a 45 auto would take care of a mountain lion as they are not too hard to kill but bigger than that it would just be makeing noise.

[9.3X62AL]

A couple comments on questions within the thread......Herco powder, first. I have lots of it, too. It is GREAT fuel in the 28 gauge shotgun and heavier 12 gauge loads, very good in magnum revolvers loaded down to the 950-1100 FPS velocity level with plain-base castings, and a little slow but friendly in 38 Special and 45 ACP. It runs about 5%-10% slower than Unique, based on my chronograph results. It is a little dirty in 45 ACP, but that's why I buy Hoppe's #9 in the pint bottles. Make haste slowly with ALL of the Alliant shotshell powders--in many handgun applications we run these fuels at pressures well above their intended working environment--less than 14K PSI in most shotshells. Blue Dot in particular has done squirrelly stuff in extreme cold and/or at high-end pressures (north of 30K PSI).

I'm not sure we gain much performance by running the 45 ACP at pressures higher than SAAMI +P. Even hard cast or FMJs are already .45" wide, and that is a BIG hole. The 230 grainers can be run at close to 900 FPS without much strain on most pistols; my old shop's carry load remains the W-W Ranger SXT 230, and they clock 875-900 FPS from 5" barrels and are non-+P. It would seem that 200 grainers could be sent in the 1000 FPS speed slot, and 185s to nearly 1100 FPS if you are so inclined.

I'm not so inclined. I like how most 45 ACP pistols with fixed sights place the 230 grainers at 850-900 FPS right where the sights are looking. A few days ago I uncrated about 25# of the BD45 castings I made some years back with a borrowed mould. It is a GREAT bullet, and feeds in all of my 45s very well. I suspect the RCBS 45-230-CM would do likewise. I REALLY like the Lee 230 truncated cone design, too. Lyman #452374 works even in my bro-in-law's balky Series 70 Gold Cup. (Do you see a pattern emerging?) I do have a Lee version of the H&G #68 200 grainer that everybody copies (poorly), and a 4-banger Lyman #452460. These last two get used in my Gold Cup at about 800 FPS for paper-punching and for any itinerant varmint that shows himself in a safe-to-shoot area going to or from a range site. Hate to shoot rats or jacks with hard-to-find and expensive factory ammo meant for sterner circumstances.

We don't (yet) have The Griz or wolves back in California, but not from lack of effort on the part of tree huggers to re-establish both here. Our currently-available black bears and mountain lions can and have provided sufficient entertainment for Marie and I over the years, and a side iron is not my preferred counter-measure for those encounters. Something with a bit more authority provides great comfort.......not necessarily belt-fed, but a lever or bolt rifle of 30 caliber or greater gets my vote. I have employed a 223 bottom-feeder to dissuade two-legged and dispatch four-legged vermin, but the rat guns tend to stay home these days in favor of the Win 94 opened up to 38-55. 250 grains cast as a soft point sent at 1850 FPS sends all the right signals.

[StrawHat]

"the SAECO 453? A 45 caliber wadcutter. If launched at 850 or 900 fps, it should hit like a sledge."

How well will that bullet feed in a semi-auto?
I am trying to be realistic.

So am I, the OP mentioned two revolvers. Just cause it is a 45 ACP doesn't mean it is a self loader.

Kevin

[44MAG#1]

"So am I, the OP mentioned two revolvers. Just cause it is a 45 ACP doesn't mean it is a self load."

What do you think his number one gun listed is?
What is a XDm? Would that be a Springfield semi?

[StrawHat]

My mistake, I was going from memory, should have looked.

I have no idea what an XDm is.

Since it seems to be important to you, you win.

Kevin

[44MAG#1]

"I have no idea what an XDm is."

I do.

[Virginian]

I am a fan of Unique in the 45 ACP but have also had great performance with Universal.
I also prefer 230 grain bullets in the 45 ACP

Unique fan here as well. A little messy with powder residue but very accurate for me.

[Groo]

Groo here
44mag#1
The reason for a smaller meplat is to control how deep the boolet will go.
Unlike a mag revolver, the auto does not have extra "horsepower" to drive a heavy boolet with a large mepla.
The trick is to balance weight , speed and meplat size in a smaller package at lower pressure.
Keith liked 1100 to 1200fps with meplat of about 65% that is what I want to shoot for.
The 200gr 68 swc is about the heaviest flat nose bullet that will feed and be accurate at a speed that comes close.
PS Also this is similar to the 45-08 load that was tested and proved in Canada by Gudes.

[44MAG#1]

Groo,

The Saeco 058 has a bearing length very, very, very, close to the #68 H&G.
There should be vertually no real difference between the two velocity wise.
You are not going to find any pressure tested loads for the #68 that will give that velocity even at +P loads.
Maybe 1050 with a 5 inch gun is all.
And really wouldn't you rather maybe have 50 FPS less velocity using a larger meplat bullet rather than 50 FPS faster with a piddling meplat designed to paper punch?
If one is going to carry the gun for animals or something else I know I sure would.
Think about the meplats people are using in revolvers. Why would one want to limit themselves with a semi?
Doesnt make sense unless one hasn't thought it out.
By the way the 058 weighs 215 grains. What did you think it weighed? That is only 15 grains more than the average #68. Is that a huge difference???
Maybe I am missing something in the way I am looking at the performance level of the two velocity wise? Am I?

[Groo]

Groo here
44mag#1
Yes you have missed the point.
For the most part, Auto pistols will not feed large meplat bullets.
Unlike a revolver, there is no room for "extra long" bullets and limited case space.
Bullets with larger meplats slow down faster[aka don't go as deep ] than smaller ones.
I AM making a round that will work in 45 acp auto or revolver.
I have come to the realization that we have forgotten that what works for most shooting is not super heavy / big meplat
bullets but normal weight/ meplat bullets.
Keith had access to heaver bullets but stayed with the 245gr 44/44m bullet [and used it at "long" ranges!]
JM Browning's original 45 acp load was a 200gr bullet at 900 fps.
I have gone down the super heavy bullet road a "long" time ago and have come back to the more normal weights.
I am just speeding things up some for some more depth and easier hitting at range.

[44MAG#1]

Groo,

I am not talking about heavy bullets. For goodness sake. Unless you call a 215 gr bullet heavy. The Meplat is larger than normal but it feeds for me in a full size 1911, a 3 in compact 1911 and an XDs with a 3.3 inch barrel.
How do you know that bullet won't penetrate deeply enough???
In my tests it does very well as far as penetration.
It would be better that piddling meplat on most.
Oh well, you are locked into your own ideas so have at it.

[35remington]

Given that a full wadcutter shape in a nondeforming bullet will penetrate more than adequately at 45 ACP velocities and vastly more than expanding hollowpoints, criticizing a 45 bullet with a meplat that doesn't approach that as "underpenetrative" is clearly not right. It will penetrate plenty, but it also must feed reliably.

In a revolver, shoot whatever you want that has a flat point. If accuracy beyond 60 yards is not a concern that can be a full wadcutter or whatever floats your boat other than a wadcutter if the range capability needs to be somewhat longer.

Look at the RCBS Cowboy RNFP in 45. Generous meplat in near 230 grain weight that feeds quite reliably. Underpenetrative? Not hardly.