best "cheap" AR15 kit

[lotech]

While this is related to the original thread, it's not in the same niche. However, I pose this question here as it's obvious there are some quite knowledgeable responders on this forum.

I own no AR-15 -type firearm. However, if I chose to buy one, "conventional wisdom" (not always a wise choice) seems to dictate buying the best quality and most desirable product or at least one of the best quality and most desirable products available. Of course, accuracy would certainly be a prime consideration.This would be a firearm that would hold its value comparatively well should resale be considered. Would Colt products be the best choice or are there better ones out there that fit the criteria?

[Electric88]

While this is related to the original thread, it's not in the same niche. However, I pose this question here as it's obvious there are some quite knowledgeable responders on this forum.

I own no AR-15 -type firearm. However, if I chose to buy one, "conventional wisdom" (not always a wise choice) seems to dictate buying the best quality and most desirable product or at least one of the best quality and most desirable products available. Of course, accuracy would certainly be a prime consideration.This would be a firearm that would hold its value comparatively well should resale be considered. Would Colt products be the best choice or are there better ones out there that fit the criteria?

I don't necessarily care for colt ARs, but they would retain their value well enough. You would get similar value retention out of other respectable brands as well though, including Aero Precision, Spikes Tactical, Seekins Precision, Wilson Combat, etc but at different price points. Even the Smith and Wesson ARs hold their value moderately well.

Of course, next time there is a shooting or attempted gun-grab and people ravage gunstore shelves, you could theoretically sell whatever it is for a much higher price. Today's $500 AR could net you $1000 if that happened, just like it did after Sandy Hook. The problem with trying to sell an AR right now is that the market is saturated with AR manufacturers, and it would make it much harder to sell for the same value you paid for, regardless of the roll mark and name on the lower.

[2wheelDuke]

You guys have me tempted to get on the notification list for a Radical 458 upper. I got an extra lower a few years ago that I planned on making into a big bore gun someday.

That's some damn expensive brass though.

[Electric88]

Do it. Don't pause, just jump into the Big Bore AR game. It's a riot!

Seriously though, I can't say enough how much I love my 50 Beowulf from them. Brass is a little less expensive too. It's the gun that is requested most by friends when we go shooting.

[osteodoc08]

It is surprising how well the less expensive AR's shoot.
I don't need a White Oak Armament barrel ,if I am not going to be shooting matches.

If I buy anything else it will be a Rock River Arms 20" Varmint barrel upper with the Wylde chamber.
Not cheap though.

Found a Stag Super Varmint with a 24" barrel on it for $800 OTD, which wasnt a super great awesome deal until you factor in that it already had scope mounts and a Magpul PRS stock on it. It shoots one ragged hole for 10 shots with 50 gr VMaxs.

Keep an eye out and you'll find a good deal.

I have a 20" Wilson stainless target bull barrel sitting in the basement waiting on a build. Just havent got around to it. That 24" stainless bull is heavy!

[osteodoc08]

Hey Steve,

Did you ever get your AR?

[osteodoc08]

Do it. Don't pause, just jump into the Big Bore AR game. It's a riot!

Seriously though, I can't say enough how much I love my 50 Beowulf from them. Brass is a little less expensive too. It's the gun that is requested most by friends when we go shooting.

Shot a friends 458 SOCOM and I have to admit, it was pretty dang awesome. 45/70 ballistics in an AR. Whats not to love?

Realistically though, My Marlin 1895 GG holds about the same number of rounds and I can load from mild to wild and function is dependent on my flip of the wrist, not gas. Sure was fun though.

[xacex]

Radical firearms has really come up in the business over the last few years. Primary arms usually has their uppers for less than radical sells them for from their store. I have one of their 308 BCG's and it works just fine. No complaints. As for the 458, think of it as a 47/70 special. You will not get the velocity of the 45/70 in most loads. That is what pushed me to get a 50 Beowulf barrel. Unfortunately, the 12.7x42 or 50 Beo barrels are not cheap.

[sghart3578]

Hey Steve,

Did you ever get your AR?

It is on the UPS truck and should be here Tuesday, the day after tomorrow. It is my son's day off so he plans to sign for it and assemble it for me while I am at work.

In the meantime I have been getting some ammo ready. I have 300 rounds of handloads and a few boxes of factory loads for the shakedown run.

This may sound silly, especially since I swore I would never get on the AR bandwagon, but I am actually kind of excited.


Steve in N CA

[MrWolf]

You guys have me tempted to get on the notification list for a Radical 458 upper. I got an extra lower a few years ago that I planned on making into a big bore gun someday.

That's some damn expensive brass though.

Just remember I called Dibs first when only one comes in

[Blackwater]

Whatever you get, don't forget to load up on magazines, too. Semi-autos are VERY slow to load if you don't have spare loaded mags around and handy. My experience with AR's has been uniformly good, but I HAVE known folks who built their own who had functioning problems. If it were me, I think I'd order all internal lower parts from the same manufacturer. That way, there's more assurance they're spec'd to match up. Specs do vary on AR's from company to company, but not usually enough to make a whole lot of difference, it seems. Just something anyone building one should know. Function with this type rifle is paramount to all else! And don't forget the magazines. They're the "secret" to keeping them going, and heaven only knows what lies ahead for us these days. Even the unthinkable has become sadly thinkable!

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Blackwater is 100% correct. A couple years ago a friend and I split a hundred from Brownells. It is a comforting sight to see them all lined up, ready to go to work if need be.

[W.R.Buchanan]

While this is related to the original thread, it's not in the same niche. However, I pose this question here as it's obvious there are some quite knowledgeable responders on this forum.

I own no AR-15 -type firearm. However, if I chose to buy one, "conventional wisdom" (not always a wise choice) seems to dictate buying the best quality and most desirable product or at least one of the best quality and most desirable products available. Of course, accuracy would certainly be a prime consideration.This would be a firearm that would hold its value comparatively well should resale be considered. Would Colt products be the best choice or are there better ones out there that fit the criteria?

Lotech: before you dive in and spend a large amount of money looking for "Purported Quality." I would heavily recommend that you actually start looking at the various guns at gun stores.

I would recommend that you NOT buy anything from them, and definitely not let the BS that comes out of a salesman's mouth influence you in any way.

After you have looked a guns from the least expensive to most expensive, I want you to think about what the actual differences you could see for yourself were, and how they affect you. I would submit that they will not have anything to do with price.

A Delton AR or a Ruger AR556 are some of the least expensive and both are quality guns in their own rights. Daniel Defense is one of the most expensive and there is about $2000 difference in the price.

But can you, yourself, extract $2000 more value from the more expensive gun? Can you even extract $1000 more?

I submit you can't, and neither can anyone else who is not using that more expensive gun in a scenario that the benefits of that increased quality would show itself. IE Heavy Competition, or Combat.

AR's are like VW's from the 60's. There is so much aftermarket stuff available that you can make anyone of them into anything you want. There is a plethora of Furniture available, I like the Magpul stuff and their Magazines as well. 14 different outfits make drop in triggers, and Spring Kits. There are any number of optics and different kinds of sights. You can install a Chrome Plated Bolt Carrier if you really think you need that. There are 50 different Slings made for the gun or you can buy one of mine!

The point is, that in effect you are buying a Lower Receiver and maybe an Upper/Barrel Assembly, and then customizing it to your particular tastes. And you will end up with some piece parts left over.

But what you really should be doing is buying an entry level rifle and going to a Class to learn how to operate it and how it is used in a defensive role.

Then if you decide you want to continue down the "Tactical Path" you can upgrade what you have or pass it on and then buy the nicer gun, since now you will actually know why it is nicer, instead of relying on the price tag to tell you.

Believe me when I say that any AR, in todays climate, will hold it's value. However the more expensive gun will definitely be harder to sell and get your money back. If all you are going to do is plink or shoot paper targets with the gun then I submit that those cans won't know the difference if they are being shot with $600 gun or a $2600 gun.

If we have to go to War then I would submit that our enemies won't be able to tell the difference either. But if you learn how to run the gun and how to use it, you might just prevail in said conflict. That's where the training comes in. A gun is only as useful as the guy holding it.

A Practical Rifle Class at Front Sight will enlighten you greatly and after 4 days if you can't operate your new gun properly and hit what you aim at,,,, you should maybe take up Fly Fishing. But at least you wouldn't have a $2600 gun to try to get rid of. There are probably 500 $600 guns sold for every $2600 gun.

My main point here is for you to have a serious look at buying and inexpensive gun and then spending the rest on training at a reputable Firearms Training Facility. I hock Front Sight a lot here as I have been member there for 14 years now, but there are certainly other places that do a good job. They just don't run 80,000 people a year thru their classes like FS does.

Hope some of this helps you decide.

Randy

[sghart3578]

I have a short review and some observations.

I received the kit from Palmetto State Armory on Tuesday. My son assembled it with no problems. No missing parts. The upper was a nice, tight fit to my lower.

Attachment 159965Attachment 159966

I was able to get in a quick range trip this morning. My son only had a couple of hours to spare. Plus, the weather here has the outdoor range under water so instead we went to our favorite indoor range. This limited the distance to 26 yards but we were more interested in the rifle's function at this point.

We fired a total of 200 rounds through it with zero malfunctions of any kind. This consisted of 20 rounds of new American Eagle 5.56 ammo in brass cases, 20 rounds of new Tula steel cased ammo, and 160 rounds of various .223 reloads from my stash.

The rifle was easy to shoot and reliable. I know that 200 rounds hardly qualifies as a torture test but so far so good.

Accuracy was very acceptable for me. I went with a standard A2 type carry handle for the rear sight and it zeroed easily. I went with a Leapers UTG handle. It was advertised as forged and was middle of the road cost wise.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UTG-PRO-US-M.../272116046267?

When I bought the kit I chose a 1-8 twist as a compromise between 55 gr bullets and heavier weights. Initial accuracy testing is promising. These targets are at 26 yards, three shot groups.

Attachment 159967Attachment 159968

In summary, I am very happy with my choice and would recommend it to any one. For a total of $510 I have a functional, accurate AR15 in 5.56. It may not stand up to 20,000 rounds of desert combat in Iraq but I am confident that it can gather game if necessary and also protect my home and family if needed.


Thanks again for all of your help and input.


Steve in N CA

[osteodoc08]

Glad to hear you had a good experience. As you found out, it's very easy to go through some serious ammo quantities.

Ive had excellent luck with 50-55gr Vmaxs with 8208XBR and Benchmark.

[sghart3578]

Glad to hear you had a good experience. As you found out, it's very easy to go through some serious ammo quantities.

Ive had excellent luck with 50-55gr Vmaxs with 8208XBR and Benchmark.

Thanks,

I will look into those.

Steve

[W.R.Buchanan]

I received the kit from Palmetto State Armory on Tuesday. My son assembled it with no problems. No missing parts. The upper was a nice, tight fit to my lower.

Attachment 159965Attachment 159966

I was able to get in a quick range trip this morning. My son only had a couple of hours to spare. Plus, the weather here has the outdoor range under water so instead we went to our favorite indoor range. This limited the distance to 26 yards but we were more interested in the rifle's function at this point.

We fired a total of 200 rounds through it with zero malfunctions of any kind. This consisted of 20 rounds of new American Eagle 5.56 ammo in brass cases, 20 rounds of new Tula steel cased ammo, and 160 rounds of various .223 reloads from my stash.

The rifle was easy to shoot and reliable. I know that 200 rounds hardly qualifies as a torture test but so far so good.

Accuracy was very acceptable for me. I went with a standard A2 type carry handle for the rear sight and it zeroed easily. I went with a Leapers UTG handle. It was advertised as forged and was middle of the road cost wise.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UTG-PRO-US-M.../272116046267?

When I bought the kit I chose a 1-8 twist as a compromise between 55 gr bullets and heavier weights. Initial accuracy testing is promising. These targets are at 26 yards, three shot groups.

Attachment 159967Attachment 159968

In summary, I am very happy with my choice and would recommend it to any one. For a total of $510 I have a functional, accurate AR15 in 5.56. It may not stand up to 20,000 rounds of desert combat in Iraq but I am confident that it can gather game if necessary and also protect my home and family if needed.


Thanks again for all of your help and input.


Steve in N CA

Steve: what you ended up with is exactly what and why I posted that long desertation on AR's above. The performance you are getting is more than acceptable, if not excellent for your uses with a $500 gun.

I would submit that your gun would fulfill the actual needs of 99% of AR shooters, and that point has been proven by your experience with that gun.

Like I said above, there is a Myriad of Piece Parts that you can add to your gun to customize it if you feel you need to, but starting out in the AR world is best done on the lower end of the spectrum, as opposed to buying an expensive gun and finding it is "what you thought you wanted, but then turned out to be not what you really need."

Randy

[sghart3578]

Steve: what you ended up with is exactly what and why I posted that long desertation on AR's above. The performance you are getting is more than acceptable, if not excellent for your uses with a $500 gun.

I would submit that your gun would fulfill the actual needs of 99% of AR shooters, and that point has been proven by your experience with that gun.

Like I said above, there is a Myriad of Piece Parts that you can add to your gun to customize it if you feel you need to, but starting out in the AR world is best done on the lower end of the spectrum, as opposed to buying an expensive gun and finding it is "what you thought you wanted, but then turned out to be not what you really need."

Randy

Randy,

I couldn't agree more. I can appreciate a fine firearm as much as the next guy. I can also appreciate advanced machining, metallurgy, etc. I enjoy reading about advances in firearms design as well as advancements in all fields.

But I have been around guns for almost 50 years and I have learned that none of us push our guns anywhere close to what they are built to take. Maybe there are a group of real life operators who do and to those guys I apologize. But I will never get close to testing this rifle's limits.

The purpose of my thread was to build an acceptable rifle without overpaying. And with the help from you guys I think I did it.


Steve in N CA

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Steve,

I worked on M16A2's in the Army years ago and I've built or repaired many of them since then. I own the exact same kit you do, except I have aftermarket type furniture. I think you chose very, very well. Here's the only things I suggest you do:

1. Buy spare bolt parts, such as gas rings, extractor O-rings and extractor springs. Keep these as spares.
2. Buy 1 complete spare bolt.
3. Buy at least 10 30-round magazines, preferably some manufactured from a government supplier like D&H with a Magpul no-tilt follower.
4. Buy a good handful of straight stick 20 rounders, also from D&H to use at the range and as get in and out of the vehicle magazines.
5. Buy a simple sling to carry it with, just in ever need to. A padded one if you're old with a tender shoulder like me.

[sghart3578]

Dave,

Thank you very much for the kind words. Coming from someone with your background it means something.

I will make a list of your suggested parts and start buying them right away.

Except for the mags. I am in California so I am limited to 10 rounds. (wink wink)

Thanks again,


Steve in N CA