IMR 4227 or Lil Gun & Lyman 358429

[41special]

Looking for data for my hardcast 170 gainers.

Going to used in a OM Blackhawk, those are the 2 powders I have on hand to work with other than 2400. I'm out of Blue dot & H-110

Magnum or standard primers, what say you?



41

[PS Paul]

I love 4227 in 45 Colt, but my efforts with 4227 in 357 have resulted in less than satisfactory performance.
lil gun has worked really well for me in 357 and 358429 from a 6" security six.

there are some who've had good results with 4227 in 357, but I'm not one of them. I would choose lil gun.

Data is out there, but IIRC, I used jacketed data for a 170 gr bullet from Lee's manual and played around with it. For obvious reasons I would not give that same recommendation..... No doubt there are other sources, but there was none in the Lyman CB manual.
oh yeah, I used mag primers......

hope this helps.

[41special]

I love 4227 in 45 Colt, but my efforts with 4227 in 357 have resulted in less than satisfactory performance.
lil gun has worked really well for me in 357 and 358429 from a 6" security six.

there are some who've had good results with 4227 in 357, but I'm not one of them. I would choose lil gun.

Data is out there, but IIRC, I used jacketed data for a 170 gr bullet from Lee's manual and played around with it. For obvious reasons I would not give that same recommendation..... No doubt there are other sources, but there was none in the Lyman CB manual.
oh yeah, I used mag primers......

hope this helps.

Paul, thanks.

Yep no Lil' Gun data in my newer Lyman manual for the 357/358429. Really like it in my 41 magnum with the heavies, run standard primers in that load.


I'll look for that jacketed 170 data & take it from there.

[Scharfschuetze]

I can't comment on 4227 in the 357, but Lil'Gun works a treat for me in the calibre. It is especially useful in 357 rifle loads using 180 grain boolits.

[41special]

Found my data on Hodgons website. The 170 grain jacketed starting load is 15.0 grains.

I'll try that with their listed recipe of WW brass and the WSPM primer add my 358429 hardcast.

My OM Blackhawk should digest those just fine.

IMR 4227 hasn't gotten good reviews in the 357 pistol.

Blue Dot has alot of admirers, might have to scrounge up a canister.



41

[tazman]

I am currently working with 14 grains of IMR4227 with the 358429 and getting good if not outstanding results in my New Model Blackhawk. I think with a bit of tuning it will work fine.
Glen Fryxell like 14.5 with that boolit.

[41special]

I am currently working with 14 grains of IMR4227 with the 358429 and getting good if not outstanding results in my New Model Blackhawk. I think with a bit of tuning it will work fine.
Glen Fryxell like 14.5 with that boolit.

Taz, your the 1st user that has liked IMR 4227 in this application. If you get a chance to record muzzle velocity & SD please post or PM me.

[tazman]

Taz, your the 1st user that has liked IMR 4227 in this application. If you get a chance to record muzzle velocity & SD please post or PM me.

Not certain when I will get the opportunity to do so, but I will try to get it done.

[TXGunNut]

Haven't been seeing any H110 hereabouts but saw a shelf full of WW296 last weekend.

[41special]

Haven't been seeing any H110 hereabouts but saw a shelf full of WW296 last weekend.

Me too, just picked a few #'s today!


41

[TCLouis]

Fryxell's book mentions 14.5 4227 with 358429. It is the max 4227 load in the 3rd Cast Bullet load book.

I used it just recently with the 358429 GB boolit and also with 15.2 grains of 296, they are the most accurate loads I have shot out of that GP 100.

The 4227 load was accurate enough that I estimated POA offset from the current sight setting (sights are set for another load) on a 1 gallon milk jug full of water at 50 yards.
Neat little round WC hole in front, back side blown out with a healthy spray of water.

The gallon jug of water is what I use to estimate "relative impact effect" in testing.

I have not used it yet,but bought a cheapy video camera to catch video of the water spray for comparisons.

[USSR]

The Lyman 49th Edition also lists 14.5gr of 4227 as the Max load. However, please note that data is based on seating the 358429 to a depth in which the crimp is applied over the edge of the front band. Since guys not shooting S&W 27/28 revolvers are crimping in the crimp groove at a much greater OAL, Max ain't Max for these guys.

Don

[tazman]

The Lyman 49th Edition also lists 14.5gr of 4227 as the Max load. However, please note that data is based on seating the 358429 to a depth in which the crimp is applied over the edge of the front band. Since guys not shooting S&W 27/28 revolvers are crimping in the crimp groove at a much greater OAL, Max ain't Max for these guys.

Don

This is true. I had forgotten about the short cylinder problem since I was using a Blackhawk.

[TCLouis]

My loading is to the crimp groove also, but with the GB boolit.

[Beerd]

The Lyman 49th Edition also lists 14.5gr of 4227 as the Max load. However, please note that data is based on seating the 358429 to a depth in which the crimp is applied over the edge of the front band. Since guys not shooting S&W 27/28 revolvers are crimping in the crimp groove at a much greater OAL, Max ain't Max for these guys.

Don

If you turn to the page in Lyman 49 for Contender data they list OAL to the crimp groove.
Nothing for 4227 but Min & Max for other powders is the same as the shorter loading.
..

[tazman]

I still haven't gotten outside where I can use my chronograph. However, I did break down and put a red dot on my Ruger Blackhawk to help compensate for my old eyes. Boy did that ever make a difference.
I sighted it in and shot it at an indoor range today. The IMR 4227 load I was using worked excellent with everything I loaded.
I loaded 14.2 IMR 4227 with the Lyman 358429 and got a 6 shot group that measured 2 inches at 20 yards. This was repeatable since I did it 3 times in succession.
I used the same powder charge under the Lyman 358156 and got 2 groups almost as good but not quite.
I used 15 grains of IMR 4227 under a Hornady 158 grain XTP and got 2 successive groups right at 1.5 inches.
My Winchester 296 loads need some work.

[varminter66]

I tried Lil Gun in my .357 mag with 358156 HP GC using an alloy close to Electrotype in composition. It did not perform well for me. In all fairness, due to a lack of published loading information for reduced loads, I really didn't try all the options that may have worked. I did switch to 2400, and found that to be very useful, and accurate for my purposes. Herco also performed well for me with these caste boolits.

Now, for jacketed, store bought bullets, Lil Gun is my go to powder.