Adveture with a used Lee Por 1000 continues

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

rbuck1,

On reading your method of lapping, I would suggest another methodology for two reasons: 1. You're working with soft plastic, it's easy to remove material and 2. You can pretty much eliminate the powder leakage if you're patient.

Here's the method I suggest:

1. Go to the hardware store and pick up several sheets of wet/dry sandpaper. Why? Because plastic will clog sandpaper and you can rinse the dust clear with wet/dry and re-use.
2. Find a flat, hard surface to polish/lap on . A big tile from the big box outfits or a bondo mixing steel doo dad from Harbor Freight works good.
3. Start with a fairly coarse grit, around 400. hold firmly in hand and work back and forth. Do a few strokes and check the part you're working with. When it begins to look close, stop with this grit.
4. Next, use 600 grit to get that last little bit of rough material, casting flashing, etc off. Again, do a few strokes, check the part and when it looks close, change grits.
5. Next, use 1000 grit and do the same thing as steps 3 and 4, you're getting close now. Start checking against other disks and the base to see where you're at each time you stop. When the scratch lines from the previous grit are gone, quit.
6. Finally, use 1200 or 1500 grit (or both, if you want the best fit) to do the final fitting work.

Do the same thing with the aluminum base, but there, start with a flat bastard file, double cut and remove the rough flashing. Then use a flat bastard file, single cut and smooth the lines to where they're almost invisible.
Next, use a coarse grit, 400 to smooth down the casting lines to the point you barely see them and you can't hang a finger nail on the lines as you drag it across the surface.
Finally, repeat the sandpaper process I described earlier.

Notes: If you own them and you have a tight area, this can be done with stones as well.
If you're using sandpaper in tight areas, wrap it around a square piece of wood or something similar.

This may seem like a lot of time and effort, but it really isn't all that much and goes pretty quickly if you follow the methodology I suggest. Remember, you only have to do it once to have a really nice working Pro Auto Disk/Dillon/RCBS/Hornady/Lyman powder measure.

And yes, this methodology of tuning will improve all of them.

Finally, I agree with Vaquero44 about leaving some machining lines in the Lee dies. But they don't have to be nearly as big as what Lee leaves them. Not even close. Also, for a smoother machine, polish your brass with Nu-Finish car polish and to raise that to a new height, use some lube on pistol cases, especially 9MM and .30 carbine.

[rbuck351]

I realize you don't know me, hence the lesson on polishing. I use plate glass and wet or dry paper followed with crocus cloth if I need a real smooth finish. This plastic stuff Lee uses polishes very well using a disc sander and worn out 320 sand paper. You just have to be careful not to get it too hot. I haven't polished the aluminum base yet and my not as the leakage with W231 is down to maybe 1 speck every 20/30 rounds and yes it is coming from the bottom side of the powder disc only. After polishing and waxing the slide tube and related parts, the powder hopper now returns to the bottom very nicely and reliably. I just ordered two more of these from a fellow here that have the older spring return as well as the chain and if they work well with the spring I will convert the one I now have to spring return instead of the lead weight I put on it. I'm installing powder baffles as well and I may put one of these on my old Lyman AA turret press as well. Has anyone messed with the micrometer charge bar? Do they leak powder and can that be polished out as well. I have one of those coming so I can check that out. My next steps will be bullet feeders and collumater (sp). Do they work well?

[Cowboy_Dan]

I use the charge bars in my 2 Pro Autodiscs. Got both measures second hand, so they may have already been tuned up, but the bars are new and haven't leaked yet, even with AA #7. Haven't tried one with 296 yet, that probably will leak. I have noticed, however, that the charge bars' settings are not interchangable. Close, but a few tenths of a cc different. I just note to which measure the setting corresponds.

Just remembered, there is a thread about tuning the bars, maybe here, maybe elsewhere, I don't recal at the moment. I haven't done any of these yet but may in the future.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

rbuck, Answers in red in the quote.

I realize you don't know me, hence the lesson on polishing. I use plate glass and wet or dry paper followed with crocus cloth if I need a real smooth finish.
I don't know you, but the lesson is as much or more for folks that may not have a power tool or the skills (and you know how much time it takes to develop the skills without overdoing things on plastics and delicate metals) or experience to know non-powered alternatives are available and how easily affordable. Specifically, a young man just starting out in his shooting/reloading career.

This plastic stuff Lee uses polishes very well using a disc sander and worn out 320 sand paper. You just have to be careful not to get it too hot.
Yep, plastic is nasty when it starts to melt. BTW, the stuff is ABS plastic and there's now plumbing piping made of the stuff and plumber's ABS glue. The glue is a mixture of acetone and dissolved ABS plastic. Can be very handy when dealing with busted/cracked car farings and slightly damaged Lee disks.

I haven't polished the aluminum base yet and my not as the leakage with W231 is down to maybe 1 speck every 20/30 rounds and yes it is coming from the bottom side of the powder disc only.
You might want to go ahead and do that and I'll tell you why. When you start reading into Lee Loadmaster and Pro 1000 primer issues, you see lots of stories where powder buildup has caused jams over time. If you're like me, once you stop tuning it, you'll start using it and it'll be difficult to stop, clean it up and finish tuning. If you get it over with now, it's done and you don't have to do it twice.

After polishing and waxing the slide tube and related parts, the powder hopper now returns to the bottom very nicely and reliably. I just ordered two more of these from a fellow here that have the older spring return as well as the chain and if they work well with the spring I will convert the one I now have to spring return instead of the lead weight I put on it.
Isn't it just amazing how just a bit of tuning in the right places will turn a pita into something worth having? I was amazed the first time I tuned my first Pro Auto Disk up and how well it responded to the tuning.

I'm installing powder baffles as well and I may put one of these on my old Lyman AA turret press as well.
I apologize, I can't remember where, but I recently read a thread where a fella added powder baffles to a Lee Pro Auto Disk and compared with/without baffle powder measurements. In his tests, which were fairly extensive, the baffle didn't do a whole lot, leaving me to doubt if they're worth investing in the time/money to make or buy them. The gentleman that did the research did a good job and I was impressed with his data.

Has anyone messed with the micrometer charge bar? Do they leak powder and can that be polished out as well.
I own several. I've had to tune some, some not. I like them and they do well for me within the ranges they work well in. You can also tune them with JB weld to adapt them to specific applications. That's the beauty of the Lee Pro Auto Disk measures. They're really inexpensive new or used, so you can set one up to a specific application, with either a disk or a charge bar, make load notes on the side, tape over them and keep that measure on that turret/die plate/tool head for that specific application. Their downfall is the fairly small powder hopper. I wish they made a bigger hopper. But they're great for cartridges that don't need a lot of powder, like the .380 and 9MM.

I have one of those coming so I can check that out. My next steps will be bullet feeders and collumater (sp). Do they work well?

I've done extensive reading/watching videos the past two weeks on Loadmasters on two Lee forums and youtube. The bullet feeders need tuning and modifications, but can be gotten to work well for specific applications. Most experienced Loadmaster and Pro 1000 ownersadvice against using the bullet feeder until you've loaded significant quantities of rounds with the basic press, then add/tune/mod the case feeder, then add go back and add the bullet feeder later. I do know there is a pretty good video on youtube on how to set it up and make it run pretty decent.

I suggest doing a lot of reading on youtube, Loadmastervideos and Lee Loader forums. Lots of good threads there and here also with a search.

[rbuck351]

Dave
Sorry if I sounded a bit arrogant. It's one of those things I have to watch. Your advice is all spot on and I realize you have had a lot more experience on these machines than I have.
As for case feeders, I probably started backwards as the case feeder is where I started. I managed to get each of them working well fairly easily. The 32 kept tipping over cases as they fell on the feed area until I got it away from the tool head. The other two were just the opposite. Now, trying to adjust dies with a shell plate full of cases was a serious mistake. This puppy doesn't back up worth a darn and it turns every time you pull the handle and you can't just pull a case off the press anywhere you like. This is where the Dillon 550 is way ahead. Two of the ones I have I set up in 9mm and 32S&WLong. These will remain set up as they are without plans of changing anything. The third I set up in 38spl as that is the shell plate that was in it when I got it. It will be converted probably to 7.62x25 as my 38s are loaded on a Star Universal. If I find another for the right price it will get set up in 32/20. None of these take a lot of powder and the hopper is easy to load so the small hopper will be ok. All of my lg primer pistol rounds will be done on the Dillon.
Yeah, I think waiting on the bullet feeder is probably a good plan although the position of the case ready for a bullet is a little annoying.
It's good to know what glue works on the Lee parts as I'm sure something will get broken sooner or later. I think it's a good idea to go ahead and smooth and polish the bottom of the powder measure as well before it causes trouble. I have come to the conclusion that the powder spitter is the main reason these presses have gotten such a bad rep. The second thing is they are not real easy to get adjusted correctly. It's easy to see why Lee recommends changing the entire shellplate carrier and the die plate assembly as a group when changing calibers. Who in their right mind would want to reset up all that after getting it right. Also the parts are pretty reasonably priced. Once the powder spitter problem has been fixed, I think I'm going to like them.
Anyway sorry for sounding like a butt, it wasn't what I intended. After reading what I posted though I realized it didn't sound good.

[dikman]

I just found this post, most interesting. I have two used Pro 1000's, and I have spent a fair bit of time getting them working (including making an off-set handle so it doesn't have to drop down as far when cranking). The second one is quite old, as it came with the cast alloy handle. While it may look nice, I couldn't replace the handle without first replacing the toggle arms for the later ones. I replaced the case slide on one with one made from aluminium.

I have two problems, which I'm still working on. Occasionally a case won't push all the way into the carrier plate slot, so I'll probably have to smooth down the "ramp" that the case slides on, and, of course, there is the primer feeder. It has a habit of turning a primer onto it side, which is not good when you try to seat it! I saw somewhere (might have been youtube) where the chap taped the small vibrator from a mobile phone to the primer chute. Every now and then he would turn it on briefly to shake the primers down the chute. I used a (small) motor from a battery operated hair clipper, taped that to the chute and made a power supply to drive it. I found that I need to keep it on all the time while loading, and while it's a bit annoying it has almost stopped the feed problems. I say almost, because last time I still had a couple of jams. I had changed from Trail Boss to Winchester 231 (loading 38 sp), and as has been mentioned I noticed some powder had accumulated around the primer push pin so looks like I'll have to look into it.

One thing I have found is not to try and go too fast when using them, it's better to use a nice methodical rythm.

[rbuck351]

Make sure when the primer punch drops when a case hits the release that it does not stick above the end of the primer slide. If a primer hits the punch as it transfers from the slide to on top of the punch it can flip it up on its side thus causing a jam that is not fun to clear. Yeah a nice smooth pull push on the lever works much better than trying to go too fast. Does yours have the old primer tray with the outlet off center? If so, I would get a new one. Does the pin sticking out the side of the primer slide rub on the grooved shaft on the right rear of the press. It should shake the daylights out of the primer tray without having to add anything. Powder leakage is a real problem as any powder that gets in the open top of the primer slide will cause problems. Read post 21 by Dave. He explains well how to stop the leakage. Also take the primer slide apart and clean up any flashing lines and then a bit of JPW on the inside of the slide. There are a lot of folks that have made silk purses from these sows ears but it does take time and patience. I haven't read them yet but apparently the fix for any of these problems has been laid out on a couple of different places.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

rbuck1, in red again,

Dave
Sorry if I sounded a bit arrogant. It's one of those things I have to watch.
Don't sweat it, I'm prone to the same tendency, so since I've gotten old as dirt, I recognize it and forgive/forget/ignore in others and my posts can be kinda snooty too. It's just life on the internet. Black and white words don't show you the other person's feelings/thinking at the time of their post.

Your advice is all spot on and I realize you have had a lot more experience on these machines than I have.
I have some experience, but my real advantage is I read/write/type very fast (gift from God), so I can research several years worth (7 to 10) of postings from several forums in just a couple days, make notes and assimilate the experience of others. Add that to 10 years of my career as a technical writer turning somebody else's experience work into a useable book is what helps me.

As for case feeders, I probably started backwards as the case feeder is where I started. I managed to get each of them working well fairly easily. The 32 kept tipping over cases as they fell on the feed area until I got it away from the tool head. The other two were just the opposite.
I can totally relate. I'm done fine tuning the press and am working getting the feeder, which appears to have been originally designed for pistol cases, to feed .308. I'm getting close, but I've had to add three modifications so far and am looking seriously at two more, one of which support and leads to longevity of the carrier where the case feeder bolts on to the carrier and the other two prevent the cases from tipping forwards or backwards once they're in front of the case "pusher."

Now, trying to adjust dies with a shell plate full of cases was a serious mistake. This puppy doesn't back up worth a darn and it turns every time you pull the handle and you can't just pull a case off the press anywhere you like.
I betcha that wasn't fun, but was definitely an adventure. The good/bad thing about the case feeder is, when it's adjusted properly, it's very positive and really moves the brass quickly on the shell plate.

This is where the Dillon 550 is way ahead.
Yes, but it's a mindset change to go from manual advance to auto advance. Things happen quicker when you're adjusting things. The good news is, if you're patient and work through each die and get the mindset of how it all works together, the auto advance with case feeder is WAAAAAAY faster with the same amount of effort coming from you operating it. Funny thing is, the best production on an auto advance comes from going slow and getting into the rhythm of that press. The reward is when it's up and running, an auto advance smokes a manual advance. The irony is the "slow down to go fast" bit.

Two of the ones I have I set up in 9mm and 32S&WLong. These will remain set up as they are without plans of changing anything. The third I set up in 38spl as that is the shell plate that was in it when I got it. It will be converted probably to 7.62x25 as my 38s are loaded on a Star Universal.
Please keep me/us informed on setting up the 7.62 X 25 and the quirks of reloading that cartridge. I sold a pistol a few years ago I have missed since because I didn't have time to work through casting and reloading for it. Regretted it ever since. That cartridge was wickedly fast and I've always wondered since how it would do with lead boolits out of the pistol I had. If I can find a well cared for Tokarev without that ridiculous government mandated safety, I'll get another pistol, though I miss the CZ I had a great deal, mine was like a new pistol, but had not been rearsenaled.

I'm jealous of the Star, always wanted one, but life dictated money spent elsewhere. I like the idea of having a press set up for each caliber, just add components and go. I may do that with a couple Loadmasters. I like the price of the

If I find another for the right price it will get set up in 32/20. None of these take a lot of powder and the hopper is easy to load so the small hopper will be ok.
Yep, perfect for those loads and cheap enough to have one for each press.

All of my lg primer pistol rounds will be done on the Dillon.
I'll be interested to see, if after loading on the Pro 1000's, you decide to pick up more Pro 1000's for the large calibers.

Yeah, I think waiting on the bullet feeder is probably a good plan although the position of the case ready for a bullet is a little annoying.
Can't help you with that one, as the Loadmaster I am working on has a different handle mechanism. You could perhaps change the handle angle with bending and move the position of where you sit?

It's good to know what glue works on the Lee parts as I'm sure something will get broken sooner or later.
I used it to repair a grill on my Ford F150 when the bumper got bent real bad. It had three mounting bosses broken off and that glue, along with using a butane powered soldering iron as a "welder" allowed me to repair the grill. It was a part you couldn't by without buying a 300 dollar assembly, so yeah, it saved me a bunch. 20 bucks for the butane soldering iron kit, 8 for a can of butane, 5 for a can of abs glue, add tax from Home Depot and I was in business to fix that plastic grill/bracket. So 265 back in my pocket. Not a bad deal. A skilled hand could use it to fill a gap, then sand over it to increase smooth function.

I think it's a good idea to go ahead and smooth and polish the bottom of the powder measure as well before it causes trouble.
Sure saved me a lot of headaches long term and I was amazed at how well those little plastic measures performed with the complete set of mods/tweaks. They actually do better than my Dillon measures. They just lack capacity.

I have come to the conclusion that the powder spitter is the main reason these presses have gotten such a bad rep.
I agree, They are at least 50% to 75% of the reason. The majority of the rest is Lee meeting a price point for beginning, inexperienced reloaders and the presses needing to be treated as a reloading press do it yourself "kit" rather than a reloader right out of the box. Puts a big burden on the very new reloader who's just bought one and is in a hurry to crank out cartridges.

The second thing is they are not real easy to get adjusted correctly. It's easy to see why Lee recommends changing the entire shellplate carrier and the die plate assembly as a group when changing calibers. Who in their right mind would want to reset up all that after getting it right.
Absolutely true, but once adjusted, they run pretty well and load good ammunition.

Also the parts are pretty reasonably priced. Once the powder spitter problem has been fixed, I think I'm going to like them.
Affordable is always good. I was surprised on how few parts were suggested to me as spares for the Loadmaster when I asked. I expected a long list, but most parts suggested seem to be long term wear items, not easy break.

Anyway sorry for sounding like a butt, it wasn't what I intended. After reading what I posted though I realized it didn't sound good.
I didn't sweat it and I think this thread is a good one for new reloaders and new to forum folks on how to have a discussion and share information. I've certainly learned a lot about the Pro 1000 from your posts. I just with they'd come out with a Classic Cast version of the Pro 1000 with four die positions. (I like a seperate crimp die for pistol.)

[rbuck351]

One of the main problems I have found reloading for the 7.62x25 especially loading cast is the barrel size vs the throat size. Both my original Russian Tok and my cz52 have barrels needing a .312/.313 boolit but .310 is about as big as you can get to chamber without turning down an already thin neck. I have an old Swag-o-Matic that i made a .3105 die and top punch for that makes a nice 85gr half jacket swc using the cup from spent 50BMG primers as the jacket and a 75gr .257 boolit as a core. I'm thinking it should load fine on a pro 1000 but i need to get a set of lee dies or at least the powder die. And yeah, the cast boolit forum is loaded with talented folks willing to help anyone that asks. I hope my posts will help keep someone from throwing their pro 1000 in a pond.

[44Vaquero]

DaveInFloweryBGA,

I have to say this comment made me smile:

"Affordable is always good. I was surprised on how few parts were suggested to me as spares for the Loadmaster when I asked. I expected a long list, but most parts suggested seem to be long term wear items, not easy break."

Having owned my Load Master since 1992 (The debut year) have replace 2 case sliders and slider cranks along with the upgraded primer systems. That's it! Not counting fingers for the bullet feeder which I consider a consumable.

I should also note that 1 case slider and 1 crank slide were destroyed during testing of the Pneumatic Case Feeder you and I have been talking about!

The LM really is deceptively simple and that may be part of the problem people have when trouble shooting it's performance.

As far a the Pro-1000's Lee have quietly and quite effectively improved the finished product over the years! The newer units may look like the older ones but function has improved greatly. Compared to some of the older units that I have rebuilt the current production is a dream come true!

Now the introduction of the new powder measure shows real promise of moving both the LM and Pro-1K's performance up another notch!

[ez4545]

What a great thread with good info. I have a couple of the 1000s I picked up from a fellow member a few years back.When I got them I had just opened the boxes and took a look and and I made plans to mount them on my bench and start tuning them up. They came with the auto disk powder measures and I have to tell you they are totally foreign to me.
They ended up on a high shelf due to just not enough room and other circumstances

I'm hoping i can get them running as smoothly as my loadmaster did

One thing I have noticed in a lot of threads about progressive presses is they require a feel or a bit of finesse. that's no big deal to me.

My first vehicle was the same way. It was a 1951 ford panel truck and it didn't like being revved up put in gear and then have the clutch dumped like I just got the green lights at the drag strip for the big race. It would stall out. When I drove it like it was supposed to be operated it ran great.

I'm sure my 1000s will be the same way. I just hope I can figure out the crazy looking auto disk powder measures

This thread is a goldmine of good tips for sure
I cant wait.

I'm going to set them back up with the dies they came with. The previous owner who had set them up was a hand loader with years of experience and he may have already worked out some of these minor issues.

Heck they may be ready to go. I do like to dream I want to see how the powder measure handles the small 3+ grain pistol loads. I'm guessing they will be consistent

Yeah I dream a LOT

[dikman]

Rbuck, it's a new primer tray because the "newer" press didn't have one, it only came with the primer chute. Yes, the pin sticking out the side rubs against the column but it really has very little effect.

After reading all this I'm pretty sure that the occasional problems are due to powder leakage getting into and around the primer pushrod area. Once I've got my new shed finished and can move my reloading gear into it I intend to strip the press - again - and have a closer look, armed with this new-found information.

[rbuck351]

Yeah, once I stopped the bits of powder from getting in the primer tray the primer system started working pretty good. The one exception was one press had the primer punch that didn't drop quite far enough and the primer would hit it and roll up on it's side causing a nasty jam. I also found a bit of flashing at the exit of the primer tray and scraped that away with a pocket knife. Everything on these presses that touches powder, primer or cases needs checked very closely for flashing, burrs or rough spots. Scrape, polish, sand, file, or whatever it takes to smooth every thing. Then wax (JPW) everything that slides unless oil will work. One of mine even had a couple of what appeared to be galled metal spots on the ram. All the plastic and aluminum pieces are cast and have flashing and rough spots that need addressed. Even the stamped steel arm that operates the powder measure needs smoothed up. There is a world of difference how much smoother they work when everything has been polished up.