Trooper trouble

[mark2935]

I went to the range with a buddy and I decided to bring my trooper. Right from the start, my handloads were misfiring in double action. This was happening using c.c.i #500 o.e.m. primers. I switched to another load using standard c.c.i. primers and still had some misfires in double action. Both loads would detonate in the single action mode. My buddy ran both loads through his python without incident. I tried his load using federal primers and the primers detonated. Both my loads have never failed in any of my other revolvers or the trooper in the past. Both loads used twice fired brass and primer seating was standard. The trooper has a lot of rounds fired from it yet the firing pin protrusion looks good. Hits on the primers looked weak prior to shooting them in single action. To the best of our knowledge, we think I have a weak spring. Questions: Do you agree? Is there something else I should check? To test this thought, can the "V" spring from a python or an official police be used?

Thanks much, Mark2935

[Char-Gar]

I assume you are taking an the old model Trooper as there is also a new model as well and they are not similar designs.

The Python, Official Police, Officers Model Match, Trooper and a few other Colt revolvers were built on the same frame with the same lockwork, so yes the V spring is the same.

CCI Primers are notorious for being hard to set off due to thick cups. It does sound to me like your spring is tired. You can change the spring or change makes of primers. I have no issue with Federal, Remington and Winchester SP primers in my old Colt Pistols, but CCI can be problematic at times. That is why I don't use them.

[Hardcast416taylor]

If the single action firing will set the primers off where the double action won`t either you have a tired set of springs or a broken one.Robert

[Outpost75]

The non-toxic, lead free primers used in some range ammunition can also cause problems.

Back in the day when revolvers were first-line service weapons, the striker indent on contract orders was checked, using a max. cartridge gage chambered to accept a .225"x400" size "C" copper cylinder where the primer would be, and the striker indent would be measured using a surface plate and dial indicator on two strikes of the copper cylinder, one holding the gun muzzle up, then knocking the copper out, turning it around and striking its other end with the muzzle held down.

Minimum copper indent for a .38 Special is 0.010" using the government gage and size "C" copper cylinder. Striker indent of 0.009" was accepted as a "minor" category defect IF the gun would pass function test. Guns observed with light strikes were isolated for function tests and fired 100 rounds with the ammo specified in the contract.Lacking the ability to do that, shoot not less than 100 rounds of the ammo you intend to carry. If a gun runs 100 rounds of your carry ammo with no "drips, runs or errors" you are OK. A new gun will smooth up with use. But if you get a misfire, repeat the test, firing another 100 rounds, and in the pooled 200 round sample "accept on 1" misfire, and "reject on 2."

Guns which have after market spring sets to lighten trigger pull or bobbed hammers may only produce only 0.008-0.009" on the copper, which causes problems. Minimum copper indent for .357 guns was 0.011", for 9mms, 0.012" - this being the indent on the SOLID ANNEALED COPPER CYLINDER, not on a primer. This method equates to striker ENERGY, not driven protrusion.

By way of comparison, copper indent required for the M9 pistol is 0.012", and for the M4 Carbine 0.020"

The gage holders are readily available, getting the coppers is the problem. The last time I bought any Olin was the only supplier to the government labs, they came in boxes of 500, the minimum order was 1000, and they cost about $1 each! A clever mechanic could make the coppers from heavy gage copper wire and anneal them and use them in the government gage. When you are building alot of guns and subjecting them to government acceptance tests over the long run it is cheaper than buying multiple pallet loads of ammo and the labor to to shoot daily samples in accordance with the numbers specified by Mil-STD-414.

My Ruger Service Six and Colt OP have stock service springs in them and run the CCI primers as well as Federal 200 small rifle with no issues. Their copper indent on the government gage is 0.012". Aftermarket springs which give you a light trigger pull will get you killed!

[Char-Gar]

Another note on old Colt V springs: It was a common practice back in the day for a fellow to put a bend in the V spring to lighten the DA pull. This was done by inserting a small screwdriver shank or punch in the middle of the V and cocking the hammer.

These old Colt pistols have not been made in a number of years and there are quite a few of them floating around on the used market that have been so "tuned". This "tuning" will reduce the service life of the spring.

This did work, but also can reduce the force of the impact on the primers. As Outpost said, after market springs can render these things very unreliable. I have a couple of new Trapper after market v springs that anybody can have real cheap, but you will be taking them out after the first cylinder full of DA shooting.

[AggieEE]

I've had a trooper that gave intermittent ignition. Cleaning the action and re lubing solved that problem.

[mark2935]

Correction I: It is the old model Trooper, not the mark series. Correction II: I should have capitalized the model names. Correction III: The grips were removed and the spring was not broken or chipped. Correction IV: There has been no modifications or tuning to the action. It is stock. The action has been checked on occasion and found to be in tolerance. The only modification/ change has been with the grips.
In 1968 my father became a L.E.O. for a small suburban police department bordering Cleveland, Ohio. At that time they standardized their duty weapons to the Colt Trooper .357. They would practice once a month using full power magnum loads. In 1980 he retired. In that same year, through vigorous testing I became a member of that same department. I was given his badge (#106) and his Trooper. Once a month we would train with full power loads. The department retired the weapons in 1987 yet we were allowed to buy them back. I bought mine and continued to shoot it although I reduced the charge. To say the least, the Trooper has a lot of rounds fired and has sentimental value to me. Thanks to all for your input. The hunt is on for a "V" spring.

Mark2935

[Char-Gar]

Just for fun, here is some Trooper goodness. My OM Trooper in 38 Special and yes those are gin-u-wine Roper grips.

[9.3X62AL]

Making some assumptions here, forgive me if they are made in error.......the Trooper example under discussion here sounds as if it was made in the latter half of the 1960s. If so, this was toward the end of the original Trooper's production period. Its sentimental value aside, this is a fine-quality revolver worthy of all steps to restore it to full serviceable status. I concur that its spring tension has decayed with age and usage; in absence of other evidence the failure of harder primers to ignite during the trigger-cocking firing sequence while still igniting when fired from the manually-cocked position is a dead giveaway to the weakened mainspring as culprit. CCI 500 primers are harder than woodpecker lips.

[Char-Gar]

Gunparts Corp is selling reproduction I frame mainsprings.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/1365010.htm

[Petrol & Powder]

Gunparts Corp is selling reproduction I frame mainsprings.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/1365010.htm

Well there's your solution.

I've played with some older Colt revolvers that used the "V" mainspring and I concur that is the most likely culprit for the OP's issue.
A little advice for the OP, if you purchase a replacement spring for that Colt, buy two. You have a fine old gun with great sentimental value and those springs may not be available in the future.

If they have cylinder hands available, I'd buy one of those as well and save on shipping costs. The cylinder hand is not related to the current issue of light primer strikes but is also a part that is prone to wear on those old Colts.

[bedbugbilly]

Don't feel bad . . . I had the same experience not long ago with my S & W Combat Masterpiece (DOB 1956). I have usually who it in SA and with no problems of it going bang. I use CCI small pistol primers on my 38 reloads and have never had an issue with them going off . . . until I started to fire my CM in DA. I had perhaps 4 or 5 out of 20 that would go off when fired in DA. Ran 'em through the second time and they went off. I bought this handgun used and it does not appear to have been fired much. In going over it, I also came up with the conclusion that perhaps the main spring was getting weak. Trying to find a replacement is now on the "to do" list. Cartridges with CCI primers from the same reload batch all went bang in my 1952 M & P. I have a feeling you may be experience what others have said about the spring?