Just Say *NO* to OREO!

[jmort]

"How much help did the unions get from Obama?"

Yet the union drones licked his boots and made sure he got elected, twice. Actually a huge amount of money was funneled to the UAW through the GM taxpayer bend-over and a bundle went to inefficient union jobs, far less than promised, in the form of the "shovel ready projects." That was all prevailing wage/Davis/Bacon shovel-ready-projects.

[Lloyd Smale]

why don't you list all the states that went right to work while Obama was supposedly in the unions pocket

[jcwit]

Ya know Lloyd, not everyone is made for manual labor, and not putting that down, it's just the way it is. I was always a small person, went into the Army at 105 lbs. & just over 5 '. Not hardly qualified for hard labor, but I was highly intelligent, so I got a desk job at The Pentagon with a highly classified unit.

After getting out of the service office work was always my forte, such was the way it was, and yes
I always made excellant money, even after my wife & I started our own business.

Lloyd, you need to take a deep breath, relax, do some reloading or shooting, & pay more attention to that Cross in your banner.

[jmort]

(sic) "why don't you list all the states that went right to work while Obama was supposedly in the unions pocket (sic)"

Those were decisions made by individual states. How is that relevant?

[starmac]

You could be right Lloyd, It has been a while since I have worked union (operating engineers) I did not intend to join at the time and even took a cut in pay. The company did buy my book, and paid my dues though. Things may have changed since that time, but the damage was done.
When I first got involved I was sitting on a track hoe, it also had to have an oiler, I had been capable of fueling and greasing my machine for several years., but we now had to have an employee whose job description was to work about 30 minutes a day, and was mad because I required him to at least stay awake.
Any water pump over 1 1/2 inches required a heavy equipment operator to run it, The iron workers welder required an equipment operator to check the oil, fill and crank it, who would have thunk it.
The list went on and on.
A compactor operator, which any ambitious 6 year old could run, drew the same pay as a finish blade hand with years of experience, why is that right.
It was next to impossible to negotiate your pay, infact was actually against our bylaws, you basically had to accept and work for union scale and draw the same pay as that guy that had a hard time mustering the ambition to actually make a hand on a roller.
These things coule have changed since I have been involved with the union, but like I said the damage was done. I have been out of the equipment game for a number of years, but still do occasionally drive a truck by the hour as a lowly hired hand, and the union guys whine constantly about my rate of pay, this still happens in todays world.

[Lloyd Smale]

when I started as a lineman we had 10 lineman in our shop. The lineman wouldn't do any ground work. that was the job for the groundman or an apprentice. By the time I retired we had 6 lineman in our shop and groundmen were a thing of the past. Lots of crying by lead men who had to pick up a shovel for the first time in 20 years. I was there at the beginning of the change so the ground work was just part of being a lead man to me. Kind of comical. Before when it was time to climb guys would disappear. when they knew if they weren't on the pole theyd be doing dirty work they all showed up with there climbing hooks on! Things have changed everywhere. Even in the auto unions guys are trained for more then one job so they can be utilized properly. Im sure lots of these changes came from the horror storys that some here still base there opinions on. I know one thing. Sign up at our local as a lineman and you better be willing to work or your gone in a week.

You could be right Lloyd, It has been a while since I have worked union (operating engineers) I did not intend to join at the time and even took a cut in pay. The company did buy my book, and paid my dues though. Things may have changed since that time, but the damage was done.
When I first got involved I was sitting on a track hoe, it also had to have an oiler, I had been capable of fueling and greasing my machine for several years., but we now had to have an employee whose job description was to work about 30 minutes a day, and was mad because I required him to at least stay awake.
Any water pump over 1 1/2 inches required a heavy equipment operator to run it, The iron workers welder required an equipment operator to check the oil, fill and crank it, who would have thunk it.
The list went on and on.
A compactor operator, which any ambitious 6 year old could run, drew the same pay as a finish blade hand with years of experience, why is that right.
It was next to impossible to negotiate your pay, infact was actually against our bylaws, you basically had to accept and work for union scale and draw the same pay as that guy that had a hard time mustering the ambition to actually make a hand on a roller.
These things coule have changed since I have been involved with the union, but like I said the damage was done. I have been out of the equipment game for a number of years, but still do occasionally drive a truck by the hour as a lowly hired hand, and the union guys whine constantly about my rate of pay, this still happens in todays world.

[Lloyd Smale]

yes they were and Obama sure had the ability to step in and try to fight it but didn't. I would have to guess the unions asked him to do it. People here hate government intervention in there lives but stand back and let the government shove things down the throat of others as long as it doesn't effect them. here in Michigan and in some other states too right to work was shoved down our throats without even a vote. Its ok when the government is screwing someone else but a bit different when it effects you. How would you have liked it if the government came in and told you how to run your business? they had no right in any state to get involved in labor. All it was is a big example of how big business controls your elected officials be it on a national level or state. Big business bought right to work to save themselves money. They sure didn't do it for your benefit

(sic) "why don't you list all the states that went right to work while Obama was supposedly in the unions pocket (sic)"

Those were decisions made by individual states. How is that relevant?

[jmort]

Enough of this drivel. Unions promote the destruction of the Second Amendment, more abortion, more regulation, more taxation and anything else the liberals want to impose on me. Why pretend you are "pro-gun" or whatever, and espouse and support the most potent force behind the destruction of the Second Amendment. If your personal wealth is more important than the Second Amendment, Right to Life, low regulation/taxes, then crack on Union Brothers. Just don't pretend that unions do anything other than take care of their own.

[DCP]

Just don't pretend that unions do anything other than take care of their own.

Try try again
They got most EVERYONE THE DAY OFF today.
Please don't rewrite history and give all credit to eveyone that is do

[jcwit]

Whoop Dee Doo, they got us a day off, never was that big a deal to me when I worked.

Now wait, Union guys are more important then nonunion, or was I more important than union guys.

Now which is it??????????????????????????.

Who's the most Important.

Mayhap it's the surgeon that saves your life.

Or is it the guy who put all his savings on the line for a start up company and made a success of his business and employs a bunch of folks be they union or nonunion.

I know, I'm the most important of all! Ya right!!

[DCP]

Whoop Dee Doo, they got us a day off, never was that big a deal to me when I worked.

Thanks you finally got it

Now wait, Union guys are more important then nonunion, or was I more important than union guys.

Now which is it??????????????????????????.

Who's the most Important.

We are ALL important

Mayhap it's the surgeon that saves your life.

Or is it the guy who put all his savings on the line for a start up company and made a success of his business and employs a bunch of folks be they union or nonunion.

I know, I'm the most important of all! Ya right!!

Sorry you feel your more important than everyone else.

[hithard]

but I was highly intelligent, so I got a desk job at The Pentagon with a highly classified unit

I'm still wondering about this one comment...cause billary comes to mind.

[jcwit]

Sorry you feel your more important than everyone else.

No, I got it 50 some years ago!

We are all important! That we are, at least while we are here.

So you actually think I feel I am more important than anyone else? Did You not catch the remark "Ya, right".

Few of us will even make that much of an impact 5/10 years after we're gone. We're like leaves in the wind, here today, gone tomorrow.

[jcwit]

I'm still wondering about this one comment...cause billary comes to mind.

We didn't have servers back then. I qualified for Officers training, but passed on it.

Think or feel however you wish, of litter concern to me. I didn't run to Canada.


Just wondering, did you serve?

[starnbar]

Well LLoyd I can attest to the fact that even if a machine was down nobody sat around for a month at Hamtramck or as commonly know as the old dodge main assy plant.

[Lloyd Smale]

that's good to know from someone that was actually there.

Well LLoyd I can attest to the fact that even if a machine was down nobody sat around for a month at Hamtramck or as commonly know as the old dodge main assy plant.

[Lloyd Smale]

maybe not more important but I think he feels like hes more intelligent and in a different league from the rest of us. I would say though that someone of such a high level of intelligence probably should be posting on the internet that he was privy of highly classified intelligence. I would have to think that if it were true hed surely know how to keep quiet about it. Sounds a bit james blondish to me. But then I don't know much of such things. Like 99 percent of us here I had to sweat for my paycheck.

I'm still wondering about this one comment...cause billary comes to mind.

Quote Originally Posted by jcwit View Post

but I was highly intelligent, so I got a desk job at The Pentagon with a highly classified unit

[Lloyd Smale]

this is what ive been trying to say. Its not your fellow working class man you need to fear its the ones that think your stupid and can be convinced that we are against each other so they can divide the middle class and take it out for good. Ill drink a beer with any man here. Im not better then a single one of you and never claimed to be. As far as intelligence goes. My wife says I have just enough to put up a good argument and get myself in trouble and shes probably right. My whole point here has been that we ARE THE MIDDLE CLASS, whether were union or non union. Whether we make our living stringing wire or selling cars. If we don't pull together there will be NO middle class left. Writings on the wall guys. Next time some politician or some exec from a big companys tells you teachers or fireman or lineman or car salesmen or small business owners or a factory worker are your enemy tell them to go to hell. tell then you know better.

[458mag]

"How much help did the unions get from Obama?"

Yet the union drones licked his boots and made sure he got elected, twice. Actually a huge amount of money was funneled to the UAW through the GM taxpayer bend-over and a bundle went to inefficient union jobs, far less than promised, in the form of the "shovel ready projects." That was all prevailing wage/Davis/Bacon shovel-ready-projects.

Thems was bovine scat shovelin jobs and they are still shovelin it to.

[dtknowles]

this is what ive been trying to say. Its not your fellow working class man you need to fear..............................My whole point here has been that we ARE THE MIDDLE CLASS, whether were union or non union. Whether we make our living stringing wire or selling cars. If we don't pull together there will be NO middle class left..................

Class distinctions

Welfare Class

Working Class

Middle Class

Upper Class

The Elites (1 percent)

You mentioned Working Class and Middle Class in your post. Do you consider them the same or are they different?

Would you care to place income and wealth levels on those classes? I know that is a bit of a dice roll since age plays such a big role in wealth and income as does family.

I imagine you consider the Working Classes and Middle Classes to be allies against the others. I don't hear you calling for class warfare like so many liberals so I am glad to here more of your thinking. The Working Classes and Middle Classes do need to defend themselves against the threats to their prosperity.

The rich will get richer, the welfare class will continue much the same but the Working Class and the Middle Class are getting poorer.

I wish the Upper Class and the Elites could understand that the short term benefits of driving the most possible profit out of their companies will hurt them in the long run. A well compensated Working Class and Middle Class will be simulative to the U.S. economy and will create a better educated and more capable Working Class. If they trickle down enough more of it will trickle back up.

One thing that companies could do more of that would be very beneficial is train more workers with higher levels of skills. Another thing that workers could do is to pursue more skills and be more productive.

Tim