Win 231/HP38 Being Phased Out

[Phineas Bluster]

Deleted

[Vann]

I can understand wanting to stop making powders with lots of chemical waste. I work in a pvc compounding plant and we have to pay for waste disposal buy the pound. I really hate losing 231 it's always been a cheap economical powder.

[osteodoc08]

Is this from the company itself or heresay?

I love 231 but can get along with any number of other powders.

[Hardcast416taylor]

With the following for these powders and the demand for them I find it kinda hard to believe they would drop off these popular powders that do bring them in money.Robert

[9w1911]

So tightgroup is the winner here ?

[runfiverun]

I hope not.
titegroup cannot do what 231 does.

the industrial waste and such part sounds correct though.

[dragon813gt]

With the following for these powders and the demand for them I find it kinda hard to believe they would drop off these popular powders that do bring them in money.Robert

They aren't dropping them. They are being reformulated. You can thank environmental restrictions, in markets like Europe, for this. If I remember right the entire AP line of powders is being reformulated. Here is a link to ADI's equivalents: http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handlo...quivalents.asp

And here is the announcement about the reformulations, scroll down to the third one: http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handlo...news.asp#item2

I use a lot of W231 and Universal so this really effects me.

[HK91]

A question I have about the "new technology" powders is if the can make more in less time and with less expense due to waste material disposal costs, then why aren't the "new technology" powders cheaper?

[LAGS]

New chemestry powders may be Cheaper to Produce.
But do you really think that the manufactures are going to drop prices,.
You already agree to pay high prices now, so if they can make them cheaper, it is just more money in their pockets.
Then they may ask you to pay More for the new Reformulated products.
Even though it is cheaper for them to produce.
This is still a Capitalistic Economic System.
Does the phrase , " Supply and Demand" ring a bell ?

[dragon813gt]

A question I have about the "new technology" powders is if the can make more in less time and with less expense due to waste material disposal costs, then why aren't the "new technology" powders cheaper?

I heard a quote the other day that rings true. Capitalism has no conscious. In reality the prices should be lower w/ the reformulated powders if they are cheaper, easier and faster to make. But that reality doesn't exist in the business world.

Outside of three new IMR powders Hodgodn hasn't released any new ones. They are made by a different company so we don't know what the reformulated Clays line is going to cost yet. BE-86 is the same price as Bullseye here so I have hope.

And for anyone that likes W231/HP-38. Ramshot Zip is almost identical in performance and load. It's on the shelves here so give it a try of you can't find W231/HP-38.

[Mod42]

If the price for raw materials is more expensive there may not be any chance that the reformulated powders will be cheaper!!

[Elkins45]

The new formulation powders I have been seeing crop up in the marketplace are indeed priced a couple of bucks cheaper than the old standards.

[RobS]

Win231/HP38 is an old standby for sure and has many followers due to its longevity in production. It's hard to change when one finds the loads that work so very well. This isn't just with Win231 but other powders as well. It's human nature to not want to make changes however the newer powders coming out will hopefully be a direct or extremely close replacement in application with the additions of cleaner burning, less flash and better consistency to name a few.

Speaking of BE-86 I have been using it in heavy 230 grain 45 ACP and 158 grain 38 special +P and it's one that burns cleaner at lower end, has better ignition characteristics across the min./max powder charge while produceing higher velocity with less pressure. In addition BE-86 also has less flash.

It's hard to say goodbye and yeah I have to find new loads that duplicate. I guess this gives me a reason to go shoot more. None the less, I'm in hopes that the powder manufactures have awareness of the older powders' proven characteristics and expand on those properties to fulfill the reloader/handloader needs.

[Blackwater]

Well, I'd REALLY hate to see Unique go, of all the powders I use. However, we recently had yet ANOTHER "spill" of toxic chemicals into my beloved Ogeechee river here, and it killed all manner of life in the river - not just the fish, but beavers, otters, alligators, turtles and a fair number of people who still use the river for their swimming got bad problems from their unknowingly swimming in the contaminated water. I used to skinny dip in this river in the hot summer when the heat was on and the fishing got slow. My direct family lineage hasn't lived more than 20 miles from this great old blackwater river (the source of my handle "Blackwater") since 1763, and it's one of the last and best "unspoiled" blackwater rivers on the southeastern coast. The local dye plant, that impregnates cloth with fireproofing chemicals, was the culprit, and they've been having these "accidents" for decades. We now have the local Riverkeepers keeping close watch on the water quality, now, and the Ga. EPA is monitoring it VERY closely and consistently, with automated testing stations along its main length downstream of the factory, to try to ensure this never happens again.

So .... I'm naturally conflicted in this. I'd really like to keep my Unique, because it's really a "unique" powder when you want something that'll do very well, if not often be the best, for accuracy and performance for many calibers, and even cast in rifles, BUT .... I'll go with whatever they give us subsequent to losing some of my old standards if it'll help keep our dwindling wildlife population. After all, what's the point in good loads if we have nothing left to hunt????

[MT Gianni]

I believe Winchester powders go away after a time. It seems to be their business platform when it comes to powder.

[fecmech]

My only question on the new powders is shelf life. I hope it is the same as the old stuff.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I checked my inventory of powders to see how much W-231/HP-38 I had on hand. A little over 9 pounds sit on the cabinet shelf. I saw the price sticker from the large jug of w-231 that I bought at William`s back in Janurary of `09, it was $68.00!Robert

[rancher1913]

I'd give you 70 bucks for it, that way you could make a small profit on selling it.

[dragon813gt]

I believe Winchester powders go away after a time. It seems to be their business platform when it comes to powder.

Why would they go away? Hodgdon has paid for the name. They're typically a dollar or two more a pound than Hodgdon equivalents. Makes no sense from a profit standpoint to get rid of a powder that's the exact same but makes them more money.

[Outpost75]

I have emailed the company, asking them for the original source material to either authenticate this or debunk it.