Midrange 454 Revisited

[High Desert Hunter]

After shooting today, and updating my load notes, I believe the powder I will be using for midrange 454 is HS6, it just really shines in this capacity. I have used 13.5 grains under a 325gr FNGC bullet from my Mountain Molds blocks, and it gives me less than 3" at 50 yards from a rest and open sights, works really well with the 340gr WFNGC bullet from my LBT blocks, the only place that Unique has beaten it is with the 289gr SAA bullet. I have found that 2400 works better for the region just below where H110 starts, not really midrange, not really full power. Absolutely shredded a 12" stump at 126 yards today. I do love the 454 Casull!

[44man]

HS-6 has worked in the .475 too, good powder. My problem is I only have a pinch left.

[High Desert Hunter]

I was fortunate to check Powder Valley's website week before last, I have an 8# jug on the way, even with shipping and hazmat fees, still less expensive than my local shop. HS6 works in my 45/70 too, but I prefer Unique in it.

[Ruger45Bisley]

Mid range 454's make a lot of sense, I like them because they're still very potent but not punishing. I haven't tried HS6 but I've got a lot of Longshot and it does well with mid-range loads too.

[High Desert Hunter]

Have never tried Longshot, so that is good information right there. The big LBT style bullets carry a lot of authority downrange, even when they only start out at 12-1400fps.

[45r]

Been shooting the rcbs 250RNPB over 11 grains trail boss.
accurate and no recoil from my M-83.

[44man]

Actually, the .454 is not a good deer gun with hard boolits. To lower the velocity is much better. 1200 to 1300 fps will flatten deer with a WLN or WFN but any more or less means boolit alloy work.
The max velocities are better for HUGE animals.

[happie2shoot]

44man, your .454 may not be a good deer killer with hard fast boolits but mine is
great with them.

[44man]

44man, your .454 may not be a good deer killer with hard fast boolits but mine is
great with them.

I have the 45-70 BFR and have lost too many deer with hard boolits too fast. Those I found could go 200 yards. No blood trails. The .454 is the same. Too fast with a pressure wave from the flat nose moving tissue out of the way in a secondary wound channel. Found deer with pink lungs with double lung shots. Just a hole. Same with the .500 JRH until I made half the nose soft. Now most drop at the shot.
I shoot too many deer to agree with you. I must have over 570 deer kills and still get 5 to 7 a season. I know what each and every gun and boolit does. I know what every broad head does and arrow weight from a bow.
Now you did not tell the velocity either. 1300 or so works so don't tell me 1800 fps with the same boolit. I will bet you use a Unique load from the .454. If over that, how many deer? Two gets you no medal. The total deer kill from everyone on any site does not come near mine. I do a necropsy on every deer and butcher every single one. I am sick of it to tell the truth. But I learn.

[tygar]

I must have over 570 deer kills and still get 5 to 7 a season. .

Way, way to much work!

[NoAngel]

I dont know what year you started hunting but that'd be the same as killing 15 deer every year I've been on earth.

Hmm.

[44 Special]

...I must have over 570 deer kills and still get 5 to 7 a season...

Well, this is the internet.

[leftiye]

Don't insult folks you don't know yungun'.

[44man]

I did a lot of orchard control in Ohio with unlimited tags. Fed a lot of the poor. I used everything legal back then, Bows, ML's, crossbow and shotguns. Had farms in PA with unlimited kill tags from crop damage. I never agreed with how farmers did it, gut shoot them so they ran out of fields to die and rot in the woods. There is a pig farm near me now where the farmer might stack 200 deer in a ditch to rot.
I give away about 3 to 5 a year now, keep two for myself. Had to cut back last season, only allowed 3 doe now. Good thing is the ladies that own the property I hunt most come to help butcher and wrap and so does anyone else. They buy paper and tape.
The year I left Ohio was the first year handguns were legal but I could use them here so almost every gun deer in the last 28 years has been with a revolver. A few with a .280 and a few with the Swede. Sold the .280! Way too much meat damage.
Anyway I seen what a revolver does and what each boolit does. Also what each velocity does.
I had setbacks with WLN going too fast so made WFN molds and seen the same poor results. Seen HP's and XTP's fail. I found a big meplat can fail so a softer nose worked best because I still want hard drive bands for accuracy.
Hard from a .45 Colt works OK, deer usually walk off and stand until they bleed out, The .44 has them run but 30 yards is about it. The .475 will drop almost every deer right there. The 45-70 had deer go 200 yards or more with no blood trails for 100 yards and the .500 JRH had them go 100 to 120 yards with no blood trails. Soften the whole boolit in the BFR 45-70 to 50-50 and use a HP, just destroys a deer. Making just half the JRH nose soft was the answer, of the 5 I shot last season, 4 dropped at the hit and the last dropped in 20 yards with a huge blood trail, no need to track anyway.
Do NOT depend on the meplat if velocity is wrong. Alloy or nose work must be done. Muzzle energy and boolit diameter is no more then a selling point.
The .454 should do the very best at around 1300 fps with a hard boolit, to go faster would need some expansion started. There is still boolit work and "dwell time" in a deer.
It was a goofy season, shot a big doe in doe season, Shot a big 8 point in buck season and had to shoot a doe before another buck, did that and then a 7 point and another doe. 2 each day so I had 4 in two days. We can shoot 2 a day before tagging.
I figure I have 163 revolver kills here if I subtract bow and rifle kills. Might subtract a few more from ML's, lost track. I don't make grooves on my guns.
I put more deer dead in their tracks then rifle hunters do so do you want to talk revolver boolits?

[jwp475]

44man, your .454 may not be a good deer killer with hard fast boolits but mine is
great with them.

So is mine.

[44man]

So is mine.

Yeah John, but I make mostly behind the shoulder shots because I like shoulder meat. Once an archer, always an archer, stay away from bone!
Worst I ever did was hit a big buck in the shoulder with an 82# bow and have it stop at just broad head depth, break off right at the head.
Not saying a .454 will not work but you need to hit different.
Now a big animal that will stomp you, break shoulders. Spine is super good. Yet to have the right boolit put deer on the ground with a double lung shot only still makes me shake my head. How can a revolver do that?
Nothing I have said is based on neck, shoulder or spine shots. It is the short distance between ribs.
If anyone does not believe a hard .44 boolit does not work at 1316 fps, see neck damage. I do not see using 1800 fps with this.Attachment 137769Attachment 137770 Compare with a .475 exit in the neck, bigger boolit, WFN, faster and heavier but exactly right no matter where you hit. Funny I have an instant kill but less meat damage with a larger caliber. Attachment 137771 Bloodshot deer with .454 velocity using a softer boolit, lost entire shoulder. Harder boolit made a hole only.
You fail to compare boolit hardness with your .454 kills.
You say the .454 works but say you use a 50-50 alloy while I talk a different alloy.
The loss about results is always the alloy or where you hit. Too many times it is said to place the shot, sure, off hand with a revolver. So a few inches off can have you on your knees looking for a trail but my boolits work if off a little. I am not such an expert to break the CNS every shot. How I wish I was as good as some with a few kills under their belt.

[jwp475]

I have only used 454 bullets from my LBT mold and they were water quenched wheel weights 22 to 24 Brinel according to Veral Smith.

[44man]

Still best to hit them right. However if I had a .454, I would prefer about 1300 fps. Maybe 1400 or so. A boolit that hard at 1630 fps is like poking a sharp stick through the rib cage. Now I have no idea what even a lot faster will do. Might be a break over point.
My boolits average 22 but one alloy uses 17# of WW's and 3# of stereo lead.
I know if I would have taken shoulders, results would be different.
Now a strange thing happened with my friend Pete on two deer. He hit the shoulders and when he opened the deer, both were gut shot. He used the 320 LBT from Cast Precision. He found both boolits in the hams. Part of the nose was scoured off from bone and the boolits turned 90*. I checked the BHN and found they are not as hard as we use. .44 SRH.
No matter what we do, nothing is to be predicted. Do the best you can.

[Groo]

Groo here
I am with you on that.
We shot Ohio deer with SSK 320gr [ water dropped lawrence magnum metal- AKA HARD] at 1300 from our 44mags.
A buck took 5, 4 all the way, 1 we found from a Texas hart shot at distance.
All through the heart lung area, buck ran over 100yds went down and when we walked up
got up and went another 50-75 yds.
We called SSK about it, found that the load was Kelly's load for Africa [ the big stuff].
J.D. [SSK] said that Ohio deer only needed 200 to 240 hp boolets. [ they are just not that big].
This and other game have moved me away from super heavy boolets for general use. [ heavies are for heavies only]
Ps. I have even started to think that a 10mm 200gr at 1100 to 1200 and a 41 mag 210-220 at 1100 to 1300
maybe all that we need for everything except pig and stuff up over 500lbs.

[44man]

Yeah, I use too hard in some calibers myself. I should have learned with the doe I shot in the front at 30 yards after making her come to me from over 100 yards. .500 JRH, no damage except a hole until the diaphragm, then hell broke loose at the liver and guts before exit. I never seen a deer go straight up and down on her belly without legs hitting first. Then she had the nerve to run 20 yards!
If all the rest I shot with the gun were CNS or bone hits, I would tell you nothing is better but I shot the others behind the shoulders. Just not enough room to slow a boolit.
I do not agree with Kelly on Ohio deer. Seen two bucks that DRESSED at 420#, average buck at one place was 240#. Far cry from what I shoot here but have 2 doe at over 200#.