Another 1050 vs 650 thread

[W.R.Buchanan]

Kryogen:
1. try re reading my post again. it is not that complicated. I am talking about how your sequence of operations has redundant operations and offering a better method.

2. You are trying to figure all this out without the benefit of having a machine in front of you to help you understand the operation. Therefore it appears to be too complicated.

Sorry I need one more line.

3. This is the exact reason why you need to drop back your expectations to a 550B. The 650 and 1050 are exponentially more complicated than a 550. You need to learn to walk before you can run.

Randy

[kryogen]

I already run a loadmaster progressive 5 station with primer depth adjustment and case collator and 4 caliber change kits. I also have a lee single stage and a forster coax for match 308, I am not going to a 550.

I want a press with a case feeder and auto indexing to reload 10 000+9mm per year, and 1000 or so 223. The 550 doesnt fit my expectations.

Reloading 223 is 2 step, how would you do it on a 223?
You need a toolhead to deprime and size lubed brass, then clean the cases, trim (I trim all my 223 cases because I pick them up and would rather be safe but thats just me, it's not long with a WFT on a press drill), then a toolhead to actually load?

[angus6]

I already run a loadmaster progressive 5 station with primer depth adjustment and case collator and 4 caliber change kits. I also have a lee single stage and a forster coax for match 308, I am not going to a 550.

I want a press with a case feeder and auto indexing to reload 10 000+9mm per year, and 1000 or so 223. The 550 doesnt fit my expectations.

Reloading 223 is 2 step, how would you do it on a 223?
You need a toolhead to deprime and size lubed brass, then clean the cases, trim (I trim all my 223 cases because I pick them up and would rather be safe but thats just me, it's not long with a WFT on a press drill), then a toolhead to actually load?

With a 650 I'd have seperate toolheads, with my 1050 I swap my dies, I've got toolheads that I don't use cause it's no big deal to change the dies
From your first post you sounded like the $$ for a 1050 wasn't a big deal , now it sounds like thats not the case so yeah just go with the 650as it will serve you just fine, myself after owning the 650 I'd wait to check out the 2 new presses that RCBS is bringing out

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK the way I do it for .223's is,,,

1. All range pickup get tumbled for an hour to clean them and then are bagged and stored in groups of 200. Large Zip-Loc bags.

2. Case Prep; I lube the cases with Dillon Case Lube and then Size and Deprime on my Rockchucker. No Toolhead required.

3. Then into the tumbler for 24 hours to really clean them and remove all lube. When they come out they are Bright and Shiny and look new. Then if they are O/F Military Lake City they get the Primer Pockets chamfered to remove the crimp.

You could insert your WFT operation here.

Now they are ready to load. Bagged and stored until needed.

Note: I don't trim them, specifically because the vast majority of .223/5.56 brass I load has only been fired once,,, AND,,, I use a Lee Collet Style Crimp Die to crimp the bullets in place in their cannelure. This die is not as sensitive to case length as a roll crimp would be. This also eliminates the need to deburr the case mouth.

4. Then I load the cleaned and prepped cases on my Dillon 550B using the first station to Prime, second station to Charge, third station to Seat the Bullet and fourth station to Crimp. This yields @400 rounds per hour and believe me, I am not pushing it one bit.

All my .223 ammo for my Carbines is loaded this same way with 25.0 gr of W748/BLC/2 and 55gr FMJBT's and Winchester primers.

This load is slightly below factory loadings, -5 to -10% and shoots and functions in my three carbines perfectly. I avoid over pressure problems, caused by many things, by loading on the low side of Max. Good advice for everyone.

Paper targets and steel plates don't know the difference.

I have other established procedures for loading hunting and match ammo, but for high volume loading of .223's this is what I do.

For Reloading Pistol ammo like .40 S&W and .45 ACP I tumble all brass for 24 hours, and then directly to the Square Deal for loading. You could easily satisfy your 9mm requirements with a dedicated SDB. I get 500-600 per hour out of mine. Once again,,, not breaking a sweat.

Randy

[kryogen]

Thats clear.
Well, to me, handling all 223 brass on a single stage to deprime/resize is a huge no no....
And the 1050 price is just too much with the conversions.

So I guess the 650 fits my needs.

I can already load quite fast on the lee loadmaster, but I have to size and prime on a single stage and that bothers me extremely...

Thanks all

[jmorris]

I I can afford a 1050, but if I spend money there I'm not spending it elsewhere,

wife is draining all my money :P

That is a conflict. My wife has clothes and shoes that she, over time, spent more money on than I have reloading. After all I don't need to buy new presses every year and still have some I bought new 30 years ago that are still "in style" and work as good or better than new. However, you have to decide how to keep your house happy.

FWIW my wife actually bought me my first 1050, so we would have more snuggle time, that's a win, win.

[jmorris]

I already run a loadmaster progressive 5 station with primer depth adjustment...

I can already load quite fast on the lee loadmaster, but I have to size and prime on a single stage and that bothers me extremely...

Thanks all

I agree primer depth adjustment isn't very helpfull on a press if you have to use a different press to prime.

[gunoil]

my 1050 is incredible, love it. $17 hundred dollars. l use a mrbullet drop die and load a long tube. Buchannans correct, if you cant get a loadmaster working you have your hands full with 1050/650.

Dont sell your loadmaster, go to : mikesreloadingbench.com His stuffs incredible. I have another loadmaster that is designated for decaping only. its like slicedbread.

[M-Tecs]

I normally run 223 in batches of 2K to 5K.

First step is a light corn cobb tumble to remove any range dirt. Next is inspect than lube with Hornady One Shot http://www.hornady.com/store/One-Shot-Spray-Case-Lube/ (when dry it doesn't gum up the case feeder like some other lubes) size and deprime. Trim on the Giraud Power Trimmer http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm and last of the first process is tumble in corn cobb or SS pins. Set aside as fully sized and processed brass.

When I prime, drop powder and seat bullet I run a universal deprimer in the first station to remove any corn cobb that may be stuck in the flash hole.

[jmorris]

my 1050 is incredible, love it. $17 hundred dollars.

I like this, they almost sound cheap.

[garym1a2]

With your goals I would get a 650 for the 9mm and run the .223 on your other presses. Its not worth the change kits and conversion for only 1000 .223 a year.

I have a Loadmaster, its very fast but won't prime. MY Pro 1000 is also very fast and won't prime. My 550B primes well and makes very repeatable ammo, BUT I cannot get anywhere near the 400 rounds per hour rate others claim. I run about 300 rounds (45acp) in 90 minutes thru mine.

With .223 I find that brass needs tumbled, sized, cleaned, trimmed, pockets swaged and primed is seperate steps. If using range pickup I would not run them untrimmed. I have AR's15 go down and lockup hard with overlength brass. It's a real pain in a 3gun match to have to bang the buttstock on the ground to clear a jam. The *** trimmer is quite fast.

I already run a loadmaster progressive 5 station with primer depth adjustment and case collator and 4 caliber change kits. I also have a lee single stage and a forster coax for match 308, I am not going to a 550.

I want a press with a case feeder and auto indexing to reload 10 000+9mm per year, and 1000 or so 223. The 550 doesnt fit my expectations.

Reloading 223 is 2 step, how would you do it on a 223?
You need a toolhead to deprime and size lubed brass, then clean the cases, trim (I trim all my 223 cases because I pick them up and would rather be safe but thats just me, it's not long with a WFT on a press drill), then a toolhead to actually load?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I normally run 223 in batches of 2K to 5K.

First step is a light corn cobb tumble to remove any range dirt. Next is inspect than lube with Hornady One Shot http://www.hornady.com/store/One-Shot-Spray-Case-Lube/ (when dry it doesn't gum up the case feeder like some other lubes) size and deprime. Trim on the Giraud Power Trimmer http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm and last of the first process is tumble in corn cobb or SS pins. Set aside as fully sized and processed brass.

When I prime, drop powder and seat bullet I run a universal deprimer in the first station to remove any corn cobb that may be stuck in the flash hole.

This is virtually the same process I described above in post #44.

The key here is separating Case Prep from the Loading Cycle. They can be done on different days or weeks or months or even years. The point is you preprocess the brass and then when needed you simply run it thru the machine to load it. Then repeat the whole process.

Also the advice given in post #48 is a good idea as you don't need to do your case prep on the 650 your Lee Machines are just fine for that. That way you can almost leave them setup up for one purpose and use all of your machines instead of having everything done on one.

More toys is better!

Randy

[M-Tecs]

2. Case Prep; I lube the cases with Dillon Case Lube and then Size and Deprime on my Rockchucker. No Toolhead required.

Same steps but I size on the 650's or 1050's. When I first started I used the Dillon Case Lube but it started making a mess of the case feeder and drop tube so I switched to the Hornady One Shot.

[kryogen]

for some reason the hornady one shot seems ok when it's wet, and when it dries, it's sticking even more than no lube. Maybe I don't use enough?

My loadmaster is fine for everything but priming. Priming doesnt work reliably. I have tried every possible solution. I gave up.
The issue is that it's a major problem because I need to handle and prime every case separately, which doubles reloading time. that's bad.

[Cherokee]

Can't speak to the 1050 - But - I really like my 650 with case feeder, it has my 550B beat all over the place and I have a powder check position with the 650. With my process, I prime separately while watching TV with family so I don't do priming on the press. The 550B is dedicated to 38 Special. Without a powder check position and the difficulty of seeing a charged case, I will not load high pressure rounds on it. As for the 650, I can easily load 600 rounds in an hour, but workng that handle does get tiresome by then. Sounds like to me the 650 with all the options would do what you want for less than the cost of the 1050. 223 would require separate case prep. Just my thoughts...

Edit: I load and shoot 10-15,000 9mm rounds and 5,000+ 45 ACP on the 650 annually, plus several thousand 357 M rounds. In 10 years I had to replace the plastic indexer earlier this year, not hard to do.

[M-Tecs]

for some reason the hornady one shot seems ok when it's wet, and when it dries, it's sticking even more than no lube. Maybe I don't use enough?

Don't know but I have 75K+ without issue on the hornady one shot ran dry.

[gunoil]

troll

[jmorris]

I quit using one shot with the 2nd stuck case (rifle). Dillon lube needs to sit for a min before sizing cases. I lube in a cardboard box lid then chunk them in a case feeder, they are dry by the time they make it to the shell plate.

[M-Tecs]

Maybe I was using to much but the Dillon lube never fully dried for me. It was making a real mess in the case feeder.

[jmorris]

I use 2-4 "pumps" (less for pistol cases and more for rifle) for a "banker box" lid full in a single layer and shake for a few seconds so they can roll around.