simple Hi-Tek coating

[Moonman]

I've used LUBE GROOVED, TL GROOVE, and NO GROOVE projectiles
with HI-TEK ans ALL are good to shoot.

[Avenger442]

is it worth it heat treating the alloy?
My boolits are almost all wheel weights.

I coat and shoot mostly rifle so I want an alloy that can withstand the pressure. I water drop my bullets after the last coat just to get a little extra BHN. Most of the .308 I have shot are wheel weight with 2% tin.

Can't prove it, but think Hi-Tek allows me to shoot a little softer lead, at the pressures I use, than I could shoot with Alox or lube in the groove. While Hi-Tek Joe has told me several times it's not intended to be a jacket but more of a separation between barrel and bullet, I think that the three coats I'm using protects the lead more than a lubricant.

When I have my loads right, my .308 bolt gun shoots the same groups I get with factory jacketed ammo. About 1 1/2" at 100 yards.

[Rodvan]

Tell me you are NOT using a Lee Factory crimp die on the 40 rounds.
I have never, ever been able to scrape coating off with a fingernail.

I'm not using a Lee FCD. Loaded with Dillon SDB. I'm going to try three coats (only used2) and see what happens. The strange thing with the leading in the 40 is, it's only bad in one groove, the others have very little leading.

[Ausglock]

have you looked at the throating/lead on the rifling at the chamber end?

There may be a fault that is causing this.

Talk me through your coating process. leave nothing out.
I want to try and help you.

[HI-TEK]

I second this, my mix has stood for months aswell. The only thing I have noticed (I used the wet mix still) is that the mix will darken in the bottle, but this does NOT affect coating what so ever.

It is interesting you mentioned "aged colour of coatings", I was going through my held retention stock samples, and found a coating that was liquid and made in 2012, (not Catalysed).
It was very dark, like dark caramel, but it was found to coat just fine, but colour was not that great, as dark resin colour over rode actual designed colour.
I was amazed at just how many retention samples I had accumulated over the years. Some were trial testing samples, some worked and others did not. Now, they are a big mixed bonfire, to make room for more retention samples, both from production, and new testing developments with new colours.
These material were stored in a shed, in a steel cabinet and had been exposed to both the Australian heat and cold, or should I say cool.

[popper]

Ioon44 - what was your load? I'm shooting 165 TC in the 40, have a # of WST to use up. I'd like to use it in 9mm also for the daughter.

[leadman]

Rodvan, you did not say when you are sizing or how. Do not size the boolits prior to coating as this burnishes the metal and the coating will not stick. Also use a little lube of some type (I use RCBS case lube) when sizing.
There have been some problems noted with alloys that leave a slight amount of white powder on the boolits. This should be washed off the acetone prior to coating. It is possibly zinc or calcium, nobody seems to know for certain.

Some barrels have little to no leade ahead of the chamber and this can cut the coating. To test this load a dummy cartridge with the boolit loaded long and insert it in the chamber and give it a twist. If the coating is cut have a gunsmith recut the chamber for you. Tthe rifling should be tapered on the ends in front of the chamber to guide the boolit or bullet into the rifling.

[Gremlin460]

It is interesting you mentioned "aged colour of coatings", I was going through my held retention stock samples, and found a coating that was liquid and made in 2012, (not Catalysed).
It was very dark, like dark caramel, but it was found to coat just fine, but colour was not that great, as dark resin colour over rode actual designed colour.
I was amazed at just how many retention samples I had accumulated over the years. Some were trial testing samples, some worked and others did not. Now, they are a big mixed bonfire, to make room for more retention samples, both from production, and new testing developments with new colours.
These material were stored in a shed, in a steel cabinet and had been exposed to both the Australian heat and cold, or should I say cool.

I was suprised with the ageing colour, but as I said these coated and fired well, I do have a early batch of Red I have used very little off, and a Blue both of which I had failures with.. they will be deposited in the JJ skip next time I do a clear out. I am getting to the point of needing more sauce for my boolits..

[Ausglock]

Grem. Give me a Cooee.
Have you tried the powder DRYTEK?
What Blue do you have?
Wanna swap? blue for some powder?

Don't tell Joe....

[Rodvan]

Ausglock, here's my process. I add 20 grams of powder (checked with scale) to 100ml of acetone. I combine all ingredients in a small squirt bottle with a boolit and shake for a couple of minutes and let it set. I repeat this a couple of times and let it set overnight or longer. To coat the boolits, I add 3.5 lbs to a bowl and one squirt of liquid in a circular motion on the boolits. I hold a lid on the bowl and start swirling and shaking for 20 seconds or so and dump on tray to dry. I found that one squirt gives a lite coating and I always have a little bit of liquid left on the bottom of the bowl. I let the boolits dry for a couple of minutes and then into the basement to dry overnight or longer. I set the tray of boolits on top of the convection oven to warm as the oven preheats to 425°. I then place one tray of boolits in the oven and set the timer for 15 minutes and wait. The temp will drop to 350° or 375° for three minutes before it starts rising towards 400°. By 11 minutes into the cook, the temp is at 425° for the last three or four minutes. I remove boolits and let them cool before the wipe and smash test. I wet a paper towel with acetone and wipe for thirty or fourty seconds, then the smash test with a vise and hammer. I have had a lite color left on the towel, but the smash test is always 100%.
I then size the boolits with a Lee sizer The .40s are dropping from the mold right at .401 and size very easy without lube. The 9mm is another story. They drop at .358-.359 and probably 50% had the coating scraped off with the sizing die. I now lube the die with Hornady One Shot before sizing and the coating stays on. Then load 'em up and shot the little trouble makers...
The coating on the .40 is very hard and I can't scrape it off, except at the base and the corner of the lube groove. The 9mm I can scrape the coating off anywhere.

Leadman: the chamber looks okay but I'll load a dummy round and see if the chamber is cutting the coating. It makes sense because when I slugged the barrel only two grooves were showing lead, the others were okay.

Here's another thought. My Lee molds need a very lite coat of oil on the bottom of the sprue plate to prevent lead buildup. I'm wondering if the oil is migrating into the cavity. What do you guys think about that? Thanks for your help with problem.

[Recluse]

I'm using a 6:1 ratio of acetone to Hi-Tek powder, but what I'm doing different from Rodvan is that I'm tumbling the boolits without a lid and letting the acetone evaporate. In the process, the coating is beginning to dry on the boolits and I can audibly hear the difference in sound the boolits make while tumbling.

I then pour them out on my wire-mesh screen baking tray and separate any whose bases may be touching. I set them under the ceiling fan for an additional ten minutes until they are dry to the touch then bake them for fifteen minutes at 400F.

After the first baking, I take them out and let them cool, then repeat the process. I give the boolits three light coatings and after the third baking, as they come out of the oven, I dump them into a water bath. After pulling them out of the water, I run them through the Lee push-through sizing die while the boolits are still wet. I then dump the sized boolits on a dry towel and let them dry before putting them in containers.

So far, with both the Red Copper and the Black 1037, I have had no issues with the coating flaking off or rubbing off with an acetone-wetted cloth.

[Ausglock]

Ausglock, here's my process. I add 20 grams of powder (checked with scale) to 100ml of acetone. I combine all ingredients in a small squirt bottle with a boolit and shake for a couple of minutes and let it set. I repeat this a couple of times and let it set overnight or longer.
Sounds fine so far.
To coat the boolits, I add 3.5 lbs to a bowl and one squirt of liquid in a circular motion on the boolits. I hold a lid on the bowl and start swirling and shaking for 20 seconds or so and dump on tray to dry. I found that one squirt gives a lite coating and I always have a little bit of liquid left on the bottom of the bowl. I let the boolits dry for a couple of minutes and then into the basement to dry overnight or longer. I set the tray of boolits on top of the convection oven to warm as the oven preheats to 425°. I then place one tray of boolits in the oven and set the timer for 15 minutes and wait. The temp will drop to 350° or 375° for three minutes before it starts rising towards 400°. By 11 minutes into the cook, the temp is at 425° for the last three or four minutes. I remove boolits and let them cool before the wipe and smash test. I wet a paper towel with acetone and wipe for thirty or fourty seconds, then the smash test with a vise and hammer. I have had a lite color left on the towel, but the smash test is always 100%.

Still OK. Don't worry about slight colour wipe off.
I then size the boolits with a Lee sizer
Nothing wrong with the lee sizer dies except their sometimes not accurate in their size as marked.
The .40s are dropping from the mold right at .401 and size very easy without lube. The 9mm is another story. They drop at .358-.359 and probably 50% had the coating scraped off with the sizing die. I now lube the die with Hornady One Shot before sizing and the coating stays on. Then load 'em up and shot the little trouble makers...

Polish the inside of the 9mm sizer die with oil in extremely fine wet and dry sandpaper.

The coating on the .40 is very hard and I can't scrape it off, except at the base and the corner of the lube groove. The 9mm I can scrape the coating off anywhere.

Can you scrape it off before or after sizing or both?


Leadman: the chamber looks okay but I'll load a dummy round and see if the chamber is cutting the coating. It makes sense because when I slugged the barrel only two grooves were showing lead, the others were okay.

Here's another thought. My Lee molds need a very lite coat of oil on the bottom of the sprue plate to prevent lead buildup. I'm wondering if the oil is migrating into the cavity. What do you guys think about that?
Synthetic oil on the Spruplate is no problem, provided you don't go overboard. I use synthetic grease on all mine.

Thanks for your help with problem.

See my comments...

Also, coat without the lid.

[redrockant]

Rodvan.
Ausglock and I coat thousands of projies per week. One of my main reason for flaking when I started out was too much coating. Joe explained it to me a being a similar comparison to glass. A superfine coat will flex whereas a thick coat will break. Hence cracking and flaking off.
I don't subscribe to the slurp method rather prefer to use a syringe to measure precise volumes of HiTek.
you mentioned you need to oil your sprue cutter, as trev said we use synthetic grease all the time. Make sure there is no silicon in the product you are using. Last thing you need is the alloy being contaminated and affecting your coating.
Try coating with an open container. You will hear a change in the mix when the acetone has flashed off and the projies will start to clump together.
Let them sit overnight or longer to make sure they are dry.
Like all reloading it isn't a race, take your time

[ioon44]

Ioon44 - what was your load? I'm shooting 165 TC in the 40, have a # of WST to use up. I'd like to use it in 9mm also for the daughter.

I used the starting load from www.hodgdon.com for the WST in .40. I have not used it in 9mm, Hodgdon doesn't list WST for it, I have been using Auto Comp for 9mm.

[ioon44]

Rodvan.
Ausglock and I coat thousands of projies per week. One of my main reason for flaking when I started out was too much coating. Joe explained it to me a being a similar comparison to glass. A superfine coat will flex whereas a thick coat will break. Hence cracking and flaking off.
I don't subscribe to the slurp method rather prefer to use a syringe to measure precise volumes of HiTek.
you mentioned you need to oil your sprue cutter, as trev said we use synthetic grease all the time. Make sure there is no silicon in the product you are using. Last thing you need is the alloy being contaminated and affecting your coating.
Try coating with an open container. You will hear a change in the mix when the acetone has flashed off and the projies will start to clump together.
Let them sit overnight or longer to make sure they are dry.
Like all reloading it isn't a race, take your time

On coating in an open container, I have got some gallon size containers with high sides to start using for open container coating.
Question: By using 5-1-8 mixes in closed containers ( I was close to 1lm per pound of boolits) would this have caused the coating to be too thick at 20 sec tumbling?
I let them dry for 24hr before baking.

[leadman]

I do think that using a closed container may allow too thick of a coating to be placed on the boolits. As stated above listen for the sound to change when tumbling the boolits. When it is hot here in Az. it can take only a few seconds (never timed it) for the sound to change. Think of the first coat as a primer, as Hi-Tek coating is a type of paint.

[Ausglock]

Did some coating testing last night.
applied 1 coat of Gold 1035 in open top container and another lot with 1 coat in a closed top container.
Bullets were 135gn RN all from the same alloy and cast at the same time. 250 bullets per lot for testing.
Mix was 5.1.7. same mix was used for both.
4 litre (1 gallon) plastic pail is used to do the coating in.
both lots were let dry for 30 minutes and them baked at 200 Deg C for 12 minutes.
both were let cool in front of a fan.
3 bullets from each lot were wiped and smashed.
the 3 from the closed top container smashed off.
the 3 from the open top container passed the smash test.

So. there ya have it.

[ioon44]

Did some coating testing last night.
applied 1 coat of Gold 1035 in open top container and another lot with 1 coat in a closed top container.
Bullets were 135gn RN all from the same alloy and cast at the same time. 250 bullets per lot for testing.
Mix was 5.1.7. same mix was used for both.
4 litre (1 gallon) plastic pail is used to do the coating in.
both lots were let dry for 30 minutes and them baked at 200 Deg C for 12 minutes.
both were let cool in front of a fan.
3 bullets from each lot were wiped and smashed.
the 3 from the closed top container smashed off.
the 3 from the open top container passed the smash test.

So. there ya have it.

Ausglock thanks for the coating test, as soon as the temperature gets over 0 deg C ambient I will start with open container coating.

[kryogen]

Can you post pics of failed smash test?

[Ausglock]

Can you post pics of failed smash test?

Bugger.. They all went back into the melt pot....