POWDERCOATING!! to gas check or not to gas check. thats the question.

[crackerjack57]

I started to powder coat for all of my boolits now, 45-70, 7.62x39 and 30-06. My question is regarding Gas checks. on all three calibers, i see no change in accuracy from the regular pan lube and an additional gas check on the 30 cal boolits but am wondering about the gas check. with the 45-70, its a HB so no need of a gas check. however with all the 30 cal stuff a different story. on the 30-06, pan lubing and gas check I am running a 180 gn RN at about 2250 fps and 100 yard clover leafs with no leading. with the 7.62x39 same story. 155 gn flat nose NOE boolit 1800 fps, pan lubed, gas checked 1 1/2" groups at 100 y and no leading. or another load for the 7.62x39 is 185 gn round nose lee pan lubed, gas checked 1512 fps. 2" groups at 100 y and also no leading.
I have read through this topic and cannot find anything conclusive on whether to gas check a powder coated boolit or not to. all of my 30 cal boolits are designed for gas check but I like the fact that with the powder coating on them they are still a little fatter for my .313 barrels so its a good tight fit.

what are some of you out there doing running the same caliber, powder coated doing at these speeds?? and I dont want to modify my molds to remove the gas check.

Thanx for the input.

[gpidaho]

My opinion, if there is a gas check shank on the boolit. use one. I only have one mould that throws a boolit that shoots as well with gas check off as with on. PC just doesn't take the place of a gas check in my experience. GP

[ipijohn]

My rule is .... if the mold design has a place for a GC, I put one on.

[crackerjack57]

OK. so far I have 2 that say yes to a gas check. has anyone out there with the given parameters given in the opening dialogue shot boolits without the gas check? of so, what were the results? in case it matters... BNH of 13-14.

[Smoke4320]

I have at least 5 rifle bullets 45-70, 30 cal, 6.5 all gas check designs but I use no checks and get excellent results
45-70's and 458 socoms at 1597-1650 fps
30 and 6.5's to 2000 fps

[crackerjack57]

now thats encouraging!! if i can eliminate a step, I will!! anyone else?

[upnorthwis]

I shoot 55 gr PC'd boolits in an AR-15. Tried no GC just to see what would happen. Couldn't keep them in minute of berm at 100 yds. Same boolit and load with GC shoots acceptable accuracy for 3-gun. 2.50 MOA, 21.5 gr. AA2520, 2500 fps.

[Gunslingerdoc]

Its worth a try to see how they do with out GC's. My opinion is if the load shoots well with lube and a GC then it gets a GC before I PC it then sized again before I load it....yes sizing twice is a pain, but now those boolits that cast too small and shot like XXXX in my mosins now shoot great since the PC has added a few thousandths bigger.

[Deadpool]

GC is needed for softer alloys, but I'm unsure if required for 20+ BHN hardened boolits, other than providing a neat, clean base. Any imperfection in the base will have drastic changes on POI, but hardly so for nose imperfections. Bullets are steered from the rear. Something to keep in mind.

I'm trying to figure out whether I should GC before, or after PCing.

[crackerjack57]

Thats Great! learned another little tidbit about the back of the boolit being more important then the front.

[DaveSpud]

Another small benefit of GC--they make it easier to stand the booilts on their bases in the oven! Might not be such a benefit for .45, but for .30--big difference!

Found that out just now...

[MGnoob]

GC is needed for softer alloys, but I'm unsure if required for 20+ BHN hardened boolits, other than providing a neat, clean base. Any imperfection in the base will have drastic changes on POI, but hardly so for nose imperfections. Bullets are steered from the rear. Something to keep in mind.

I'm trying to figure out whether I should GC before, or after PCing.

This is good info, i had to discover it for myself.
Some shoot better without gas-checks than others.. got to try to find out.
i used water dropped wheel weights for .223 2-2500 fps out of a 7.5" upper and it hits 26-2800 fps out of a 16" upper.
I copper plate mine now so the gas-check thing is irreverent to my situation, They're just so much more constant now. My PC/Epoxy came out iffy at best and would be 6-8" groups at 100 yards several very close and then the flyers. i would like to think i'm at 2-4" groups now, but since i shoot full auto and bursts at large silouttes MOA isn't really the goal. but i am trying to refine my processes for some more tradional style shooting when it gets warmer out.


Try it out, what's the worst that can happen? On the positive side i always found PC/Epoxy leaves the barrel almost too clean.

[thespice]

out of my 357mag marlin shooting 170gn progectiles pc with gc and adi2205 powder I couldn't get them to group well at all... with w296 pwder at max load they were very good groups..... but with 2205 and no gc they tightened up and grouped well...

[popper]

GC design sans GC MAY rivet due to pressure at firing which messes up the base and thus accuracy, i.e. base steering. I've gotten reasonable fps & groups in 308W using dacron filler, light loads with 2400. I GC before & after PC, both work if the shank doesn't get coated too thick. If before, make sure they are perfectly dry or cooking will pop the GC off or crooked.

[crackerjack57]

so on Saturday I took my 7.62x39 reloads to the range to see what my results were for the powder coated gas checked/non gas checked 155 grain Noe boolits. for a given load that I know shoots well the groups were much tighter with the powder coated, gas checked boolits. I do think that the powder coating did not allow the lead to be melted at the base to cause leading as the barrel was squeaky clean. I guess for plinking rounds to forget about a gas check is not a worry for the leading issue. however for accuracy a gas check will be necessary.
I did however try one other load that on a side note give me a very favorable result. some time ago I bought a RCBS mold that was a pointed 200 gn cast as .309. well with powder coating this easly fits in the 7.62x39 which requires .313. not using a gas check i got 1 1/4" group at 50 y and due to the fact that I wasnt expecting much i was a little slack on the bench. however being so impressed with that group the next time I will go to the range I will load the same 13 grains of 4227 and this time gas check and shoot them like I mean it and see what the paper says. it defiantly is a reduced load. still in the sonic range but didn't have the crony with me to check. it reminded me a little of the 300 blackout. however all I know of the blackout is the little that I have read. its interesting what you can lob out of this 7.62x39. I dont think it was ever intended for 200 grains but the results were favorable. might also try 12.5 and 13.5 gn of 4227. see what that does. oh, I do use a small bit of cotton just to hold the powder to the back.

[popper]

Bases don't melt w/o GC, you get riveting or gas cutting. I use 15.5 of 4227 for a 145 PB running 1750 & ~1/2 MOA @ 50 so keep trying. I've gone to 1950(BO) but it's hard on brass. It may work & save $0.03 per shot.

[otter5555]

i epoxy coat my 308 bullets. w/o gc the same load (not quite 2500 fps) shoots 1.5 moa, with gc it shoots .6 moa

either way ZERO leading. bore STAYS spotless.

[MGnoob]

i epoxy coat my 308 bullets. w/o gc the same load (not quite 2500 fps) shoots 1.5 moa, with gc it shoots .6 moa

either way ZERO leading. bore STAYS spotless.

I feel like those results will exceed most peoples needs GC or not...

i would also suggest people not be discouraged if they don't achieve your results thier first time out...
Only a few people on here i have seen claim such results.(Not that i don't believe it is possible)

[crackerjack57]

I am not discouraged at all. I have a load that I shoot on my 30-06 180 gn round nose pc gc and pan lubed. Can't quite remember how many grains of 3031 and it runs about 2250 fps and i consistently will get a 3/4" group at 100 y. But that gun was easy to find a great load for. There are other loads that I have for it that also consistently give me great groups. Just an easy gun. The 7.62x39's are not as easy. For me that's where the fun comes in. Getting something that doesn't do so well to do much better. A challenge!!

[Greg Skinner]

I have not personally found that gas checks give more accuracy consistently even on bullets designed to use gas checks. I've tried pb checks on my 10mm bullets, both Alox treated and powder coated and find my best accuracy at all speeds without the checks. With rifle bullets I can't detect that the gc bullets in my K Hornet are any more accurate than shooting the same 225415 Lyman without the checks. I get about 1 1/2 moa with either. For all the extra trouble of gas checking I don't feel it is worth it for just plinking ammo. I shoot the .22's to over 2000 fps powder coated and they do fine. If I could get under moa at 100 yds consistently with gc's I would probably use them at least part of the time, but that has not been the case. I usually use Hardball alloy for everything - no leading, shiny bores. I no longer use anything except TPC for any of the cast. I much prefer it over any conventional lube.