Smith $ Wesson woes? Sales declining? Really?

[prs]

On MSN's site today there is story about S&W placing themselves in fiscal jeopardy due to taking on more debt whiles sales slump. Sales in fire arms slumping? Ya gotta be kidding me? If they are slumping, compared to what? It seems almost impossible to buy some guns due to demand. Maybe shortages of ammo and reloading supplies are making some potential gun purchasers back away; after all, why buy a gun if you can't get or make ammo. Maybe the MSN story is contrived or wishful thinking by a con-gun media source?

prs

[MT Gianni]

Ruger under pricing could have a huge effect on their sales. Sorry to say a S&W revolver isn't what it used to be. Their auto pistols seem to be flying out the door.

[country gent]

After dealing with S&W customer service most of last week it isnt what it used to be either.

[wch]

Foreign imports affect sales of weapons, especially the milsurp stuff.
Anyway, you get what you pay for and some of the Russian, East Bloc and Chinese stuff is real junk.

[bedbugbilly]

Hmmm . . . . maybe they should hunt up their old tooling and start making some good basic revolvers like the old M & Ps? I say that with tongue in cheek but it would be nice if they offered a good basic revolver that didn't cost an arm and a leg. I love my Smiths and have a number of them but I purchased all of them used at an affordable price. They do seem to be doing quite well with their semi autos . . . .

I also think Ruger is sometimes kicking the snot out of them with their prices and let's face it, a good Ruger revolver is sturdy and well built . . . and I would classify many of theirs as "good basic revolvers" - as I was saying above.

[376Steyr]

How many gun companies didn't survive the previous Great Depression? Seven years of tight times for consumers has to be hurting, despite the last surge of panic buying. It could be worse; they could be Colt.

[tomme boy]

Its all by design. When one company owns just about every other, they will get rid of everything to keep just the one around. Then they too will be thrown under the bus.

[Zouave 58]

Speculation is that if S&W wins the new military contract with the M&P 45acp, they may leave the revolver business entirely for a period of time due to production demands. Obviously, EDM barrels and Mim internals have not improved things and , of course, the S&W revolver internal design is over 100 years old with a few tweaks and getting hard to manufacture cost effectively. My guess is as well that the revolver market is shrinking in comparison to the auto market. So I wonder how long S&W will stay in the revolver business. I wonder as well what will become of them if they don't win the contract to replace the Beretta 92. Fortunately, there are a lot of good used Smiths around and even though replacement parts are getting scarce there should be an ample supply of S&W wheel guns for the foreseeable future.

[williamwaco]

"Slump" is another example of the liberals using the truth to lie.

Don't make a fuss about these numbers. I am making them up. But they do explain, by example, what they are talking about.

The past couple of years, gun sales have been 200 to 300 percent above normal.

Early this year for a few months, they "slumped" to only about 150% of normal.

That slump was totally erased by Ferguson and they are now back to very high levels.

I read somewhere that the weekend they announced the verdict, the BATF received an all time record high number of background check requests.

[JohnnyFlake]

Take a serious look at what has happened since the last big, horribly tragic school shooting, from about two years ago. Almost immediately, all ammo simply disappeared from the shelves and many types and models of firearms became all but impossible to find. My, My, and then the long, ridiculous contrived (or maybe not) complete shortage of ammo, powder, primers, etc. for almost two years. The long two year and ongoing shortage of many styles of handguns and long guns (more so handguns), much of which really makes little sense. Anyway, as a result, firearm prices for handguns and many long guns are ridiculously high and ammo is much more expensive that it's ever been. As the say, all is fair in love and war and retail sales!

The real life problem is, how many hard working families, in this stagnant economy can afford to buy a $600 or $700 or much, much more expensive handgun? How many can afford $1200 / $1500 and much, much more for longs guns? Also, how many can afford to buy the ammo needed to practice and develop a small stash at today's prices?

Ruger is still doing it right with offering reasonable prices on most of there handguns and long guns.

S&W and Colt pricing is way, way out of reality, of what the average family buyer can afford!!!

[silverado]

I for one hate the m&p trigger, and yes the new ones too. They bend. My glock does not, not my beretta, nor any of my revilvers, or 1911s I have owned, etc. That is why I am selling my m&p (second one).

[MrWolf]

I did't like my M&P trigger either, but knew that before I bought. Dropped in the Apex tactical and love it!

[Frank46]

This was on MSN today. Think market saturation and prices. Good handguns aren't cheap and I think most of you will agree. S&W has been turning out handguns these last couple of years as fast as they can. I've been on the S&W forums and not a day goes by that you don't hear about someone having problems with a new gun. Canted barrels, messed up scandium cylinders erroding due to being fired and the list could go on. OK you cann them up and they send a tag so you can send it back for warranty work. That firearm should have not left the factory in the first place. And how many can they make before just about everyone has one or a better way of saying it is that the market has reached the saturation point. 'Member the CB craze years ago?. Just about every thing that had four wheels had a cb in it. Then a few years later the tide had changed and very few cb's were being sold. I still have my midland and a radioshack handheld. When someone is prepared to shell out $800-900 or more for a handgun they have every right to expect that wit was made of the best materials, best possible machining and fitting and has been checked out by QC control. From what I have heard the buyer is now the QC expert and ok send it back. That's costing S&W mucho bucks right there.I have a bunch of s&w's but the majority are the older models. Frank

[Thin Man]

This year I had 2 occasions to request parts from S&W. Both times I called their response was that they were using all their parts for new firearm production and for the repair of those firearms returned to their own facility (for both warranty and older firearm paid repair). All parts orders were delayed and wait time is long. It took several phone calls and 4 months for the first order to arrive, then 3 months for the second. In both cases the owners were boiling mad over the delays but the parts were necessary to make the firearms functional. But wait, there's more. These orders overlapped. It got to the point that I was calling for both parts orders with a single call. I hated having to call the factory several times but the owners were throwing fits wanting their repairs completed. With my last call I spoke with a gentleman who sounded like he had the authority to make things happen. 3 weeks after that call both orders arrived together in one shipment. One month later a matching shipment of parts for the first order arrived. Then, one month after that, a matching shipment of parts for the second order arrived. My impression was that my orders got lost and overlapped each other. Is this in any way associated with loss of profits and customer confidence? Both of my customers were happy to finally have their repairs completed but their willingness to buy another S&W was greatly diminished. One kept his pistol, the other traded off his as quickly as he could.

Thin Man

[JSnover]

Hmmm . . . . maybe they should hunt up their old tooling and start making some good basic revolvers like the old M & Ps?

Then they really would be in the crapper!

[Love Life]

I have almost bought a couple new S&W revolvers over the last couple years, but in the end I always go hunt up an older version. I got burned real bad by a Performance Center model and have been leery every since.

The last revolver I was looking to get was one of the new 25 models in 45 Colt. All the NIB guns looked like somebody had removed the cylinder, put it in a lathe, and single point cut the turn line in, Flat out unacceptable.

Their plastic guns hold no interest to me since I am Glock guy and the S&W trigger on the M&P REALLY SUCKS!!

However, it's not just a S&W thing using the customer as the final QC. Colt has been doing it for longer than I have been allowed to legally buy handguns.

IMO, the current crop of stories about firearms manufacturers losing sales and money is due to quite a few things. Price too high, a large market of used guns, years of recession, lack of ammo, lack of faith in the product, etc.

[Airman Basic]

I've been salivating over a Smith model 57 in my LGS. a new model with the lock. Y'all keep tellin' me how bad the new ones are so maybe I can forget about this one? The tag price is $1,000. Ack!

[mold maker]

S&W is only selling current production which is over priced and way under quality. The two I've owned were not as well made as some of the current import ex military. Both had fit and finish problems and one had a sight screw that broke 3 times before I traded it for a new Ruger, and 800 rounds of ammo.

[9.3X62AL]

A recent experience with S&W's Performance Center added a little light to a largely darkened picture, but new-production S&W products of any kind to not draw me. At all. Someone else makes a MUCH better version of what S&W and Colt were once known for, and usually for less money. It is sad, but I don't see any more of my money going toward a new Colt or S&W product--not at the prices charged, and certainly not with the finish issues I've seen over the past 3-4 years......when able to actually see them. I have almost totally lost confidence in both makers.

[pretzelxx]

If the military buys any firearm that has a polymer receiver, it will last about two field exercises. That's being generous. The m&p are not actually meant for military. The triggers are plastic for crying out loud!!