37ga shotgun

[Lonegun1894]

So I have a few loose screws and an idea. I have a lake a few minutes away that is controlled by the COE, and they allow hunting, but specify that the only weapons allowed are archery gear and shotguns. Now, the shotguns can be smoothbored or rifled and any sighting system is allowed, so birdshot, rifled slugs, sabot slugs, iron sights, scopes, etc are ok. Muzzleloading shotguns are ok also, but not ,muzzleloading rifles. The explanation I was given by the local rangers is that a rifle of any kind, including MLs, has too long a range, but a shotgun, including a rifled shotgun firing a sabot round, is perfectly safe since it is a close range proposition only. Well, I got to checking with COE, Parks and Wildlife, etc, and apparently, the only difference between a rifle and a shotgun, legally speaking, is how the weapons and the ammo is marked. ML ammo, especially when using a sidelock firing a PRB, in this case a CVA St. Louis hawken (1:48" ROT), well, the ammo isn't marked as to caliber, so is irrelevant. And a ML, not being a firearm, I can remove or alter any and all markings at will. So what do y'all think, remove the stamps/markings from it, restamp it as a 37ga, and call it my muzzleloading slug shotgun for hog hunting? Like I said, I have screws loose, so what do y'all think?

[shooterbob]

I hear something rattling for sure...lol. I don't see why it wouldn't work since its a ml. Gunsmiths change stamping on guns all the time.

[Lonegun1894]

That's the beauty of it. There is nothing prohibiting handloads or cast ammo, and I cast my own RBs, and the patch is a "sabot", making this a rifled shotgun designed to shoot sabot slugs. I mean, it doesn't have near the effective/accurate range as my H&R USH 20ga, and the USH is perfectly legal here. The CVA has irons as opposed to the USHs scope, and both are rifled single shots. And a ML shotgun uses the cards, wads, shot, slugs, etc like any modern shotgun, except there is no shell, plastic or otherwise, that they can look at the base of to determine if it is a .410, 20ga, 12ga, or 37ga. But a ML shotgun is legal. As to projectiles, they allow birdshot down to #2 or #4 (cant remember) or smaller, and any slug.

[Beerd]

don't ask us.
run it by who ever enforces the game laws in your state.
get their reply in writting and have them sign it.
good luck.
..

[Lonegun1894]

Good point, Beerd. Email will be sent to them today, that way I get a reply in writing as you suggested.

[Fishman]

Lol. Good luck with that. It's going to be up to the local game warden. They have little patience for those who actively seek to skirt the law, even really dumb laws like this one.

So I would ask the local game warden directly. I doubt you will be successful but it doesn't hurt to try I guess.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have a 37 gauge H&R single and marked as such. Fiochi (sp) makes shot shells as such. The gun is rifled and was made as a dart gun for livestock.
It is rifled and a 575 mini fits in a brass shotshell perfectly. Can you figure out the rest?

[Lonegun1894]

Fishman,
I agree with you, but not trying to skirt the law. This is something that I have been thinking of using to try and talk some sense into the people making the laws that say shotguns only when as we all know, there is no increased safety from those laws, and in some cases, it just makes it more dangerous for all of us. I mean, on a serious note, all games aside, this ML "slug gun" if I go and remark it as such, has half the effective and accurate range as my H&R USH and many other modern slug guns designed for sabot rounds, which will go quite a bit further than a RB, but is not allowed under current regs as it is currently marked because if is a dangerous rifle instead of a safe shotgun. For what it's worth, I have discussed this with the local rangers and been told that they agree on a personal level, but have to enforce the regs as they are written, even if they know it is obvious that a lot of this stuff is written by people who don't really know what they're talking about. That and I can't find legal definitions for the difference between a rifle and a shotgun, at least not where MLs are concerned. I think I have had too much time on my hands after work when I can't sleep lately.

[johnson1942]

i have a .44 muzzleloader i have got 6 deer with. it isnt legal but if the game warden can tell the diff between a 44 and a 45 he is better than i am. also i had a nice .40 cal that i got a really good buck with with a 400 grain cast bullet. i just carried some extra .45 bullets along to show but no one ever challenged me on that either.im lucky if i even see another muzzle loader hunter when when i out hunting. it might be a problem in a heavily populated area. we did have a really bad gamewarden but they transfered him. i think they make the warden in the next county cover this county also now. spreading them pretty thin.he was out reciently warning very one about that mountain lion thats causeing trouble but we already knew about that. the real trouble makers here are the out of state hunters. intrusive and unfriendly and sometimes dangerous.

[Fishman]

Lonegun, I apologize. I reread my post and it sure didn't sound the way I intended. It's clear you are not trying to hide anything. Contacting the warden directly makes that clear to them and they won't drop the hammer if they run into you in the woods.

It's the COE policy at the district level that is the cause, as you point out. Shotguns are lumped in one option and muzzle loaders are another. From talking with them the level of paperwork and proof that it is safe is much higher with a muzzle loader than a shotgun. So that is where the problem lies. Also, human nature being what it is, they will probably just ban shotgun slugs as well once someone tells them how much more effective they are now. The COE has a lot of good employees but their agency's approach to recreation is to tolerate it rather than encourage it.

[Lonegun1894]

Fishman, you bring up an good point. I was thinking this would be a way to maybe talk some sense into them and get them to open up to ML rifles, and hopefully at least pistol caliber rifles, if not all rifles. I wasn't thinking it would get them thinking and ban shotgun slugs too. As it is, at least here, I can use birdshot and slugs but not buckshot, and my options of animals to hunt is dove, duck, squirrel, rabbit, deer, and hog. I have been told by them that they personally don't care if I was to hunt squirrel with buckshot since at least the squirrel wouldn't suffer, but I was hoping to expand the rules, while playing within their restrictions. Now that you've made your point, I may have to scrap this whole project so I don't screw things up for myself and everyone else who hunts COE land. I mean, I would hate to be told that I can hunt hogs all I want, as long as I only use birdshot since slugs are too effective. Thanks for talking some sense into me when I got to thinking without adult supervision.

[pietro]

.


In my hard-won experience, there's no convincing bureaucrats, period.

Do what you have to, and remember - even a fish wouldn't get in trouble if it just kept it's mouth shut.


.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

you think that's a stupid law where I hunt it is shotgun / muzzle loader only , but you can also use a pistol of any caliber

so you can strap on a 223 AR15 pistol with 30 round magazines and hose down the woods but you can't use a 44mag carbine

and the state dropped their shotgun only restriction after trying out may areas as rifle and having fewer problems than when they were shotgun and the idiots in the township decided to make their own "as it was " law copying the original bad law

my local sheriffs deputies said calls about stray shots are way down since the county went rifle , seems odd but apparently people have a better respect for the rifle and how far it will go and not the "shotguns are safe" attitude

[dondiego]

30 round mags? Wow! Most hunting regs limit mag capacity to 5 or less. That is scary!

[OverMax]

I know there is such a thing as 24 28 32 gauge. But haven't ever encountered a 37 ga. As a 37ga. bore would be smaller than a 410s. I could be wrong? But I don't think so.

[fouronesix]

37 ga is about 50 caliber
410 is about 67 ga

[Good Cheer]

This is a 5 1/2 pound fifty smoothbore with a 31" barrel.
I like it!

[Lonegun1894]

Y'all will LOVE this!!! I got an answer from a non-local COE ranger that I was put in touch with by a helpful friend to bounce this idea off of. If I was to restamp my .50 rifle as a "37ga", it would be 100% legal as the stamping identifies it as a shotgun. However, I also have a Lyman GPR flintlock that has a Green Mountain SMOOTHBORE barrel installed, and has rifle sights, but is factory stamped as a ".54". This gun, regardless of presence or lack of rifling, since it is NOT stamped as a shotgun, with the required "GA" identifier, is a rifle. I think I will quit this cause if I try to figure out their logic, I will just get a headache. I may pick it up again and try to figure them out later, much later, when I get snowed in in my house here for 6 months straight and need something to do. Did I mention I am in Texas?

[rodwha]

I've been wanting to rebore a .50 cal Lyman barrel to 28 ga. Maybe I ought to see about having it marked as such...