What safe do I need?

[Black Prince]

Have a friend who just lost all his guns and other items in his safe. Thieves came in with several metal cutting blades on a saw, plugged the saw into his wall outlet, and cut a nice BIG HOLE in the side of the safe. They didn't even touch the door. They knew what they were doing. The sides of safes are MUCH THINNER than the doors. Thieves know this, so they go for the weakest point on a safe. Ft. Knox allows up to FIVE additional inter layers of steel, one of them stainless steel, to prevent their side walls from being breached. Far as I know, no other safe has that option. For sure, the Browning Platinum I now have does not have that, nor is it an option.

I need a REALLY GOOD safe. I don't need a cheap safe. I don't need a big safe. I don't need a fancy, shiny safe with gold pin striping like I have now. I need a safe that will not let the contents burn at any home fire heat level and reasonable length of time being exposed to fire. I have looked at Ft. Knox and can get what I need for between 6500 and 7000 bucks. I can't afford anything more than that, but neither can I afford to have happen to me like what happened to the friend mentioned above.

Do any of you fellas REALLY KNOW about safes other than their Madison Avenue Advertising slogans, and if so, what do you recommend? Looking at all of the different safes can be confusing, so if you know, you can save me a lot of time and maybe from getting the wrong safe too. After I observed what the thieves did to the side of his safe, I know the one I have will be just as easy to get into because it has the same side wall steel. A circular saw with a metal cutting blade cuts 10 gage steel almost like it was a pine board. The cops estimated it took them 10 to 12 minutes to get into that safe. I need more protection than that.

[alamogunr]

This link will take you to the most expensive gun safes that I know of. I'm sure there are others more expensive.

http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/...esidential.htm

This is a good discussion of gun "safes":

http://tinyurl.com/kzqmp

There are probably others. You will get replies to this thread that will tell you that the only way to go is to find a bank vault. I have a Heritage "residential security container" which is what all regular gun safes are. It weighed almost 1200 lbs empty and I don't know what it weighs now with all my long guns and about 300 lbs of lead.
It serves my purpose until it doesn't.

I personally believe the best way to avoid problems is to have a decent safe and not brag about my firearms collection.

Alarm systems and dogs are good too.

[beezapilot]

I put my safe in when I remodeled, it is framed in with a couple of extra layers of sheetrock around the sides and back (for extra fire proofing). My locksmith buddy says that most safes are good for the "smash & grabs", but someone who knows what they are doing can get into one in less than 15 minutes. I know that does not answer the question posed, but the point is that building a "surround" can seriously increase the security of a smaller safe.

[country gent]

The best protection is "multiple layers" of security. A decent security system on the buildings doors windows and other opening. A hardened room posibly with a vault type door, the safe in this room bolted to a concrete pad and wall, In a small enclave so sides back cant be acessed. In this way you increase the time to just gain acess to the safe let alone breech it. The true vaults had layers of materials steel outer copper and concrete making them im[possible to cut. Some had free spining rods in the sides and backs making cutting very dificult once installed.

[Del-Ray]

I used to work as a locksmith.

The best thing you can do for a safe is put it in the basement. Bolt it down to a concrete shelf raised higher then the surrounding floor. And then hide it.

In a fire, fireproof safes release moisture from their fireproofing. This moisture doesn't go anywhere after the fire except onto your guns. I use and recommend " bull frog" brand VCI barriers from: thrust store.com. I replace them once a year. Not a single speck of rust in my safes, ever.

If you have a fire, the firemen will use water to put it out. No, really. This water pools in the basement, which is why I recommend the shelf. When a house burns down your insurance will tell you DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING.

Yeah. This is where you have to decide if you want new guns, or you want to keep your great grandfathers old guns. The gun store I work at has brought in several collections over the years from guns left in safes. By the time the insurance company let them get their guns out of the safe they were ruined for any value. Rusted. Smelling of smoke so bad the shop stunk.

But a good safe. With a good fire rating from the UL. Bolt it down. Surround it with more Sheetrock as previously stated. And HIDE IT.

And remember that old Hells Angels slogan. "Three can keep a secret if two are dead."

[Artful]

And remember that old Hells Angels slogan. "Three can keep a secret if two are dead."

I think you'll find that Benjamin Franklin wrote that before the Hells Angels ever heard of it,
in his "Poor Richard's Almanac"

[snaketail]

No matter which safe you get you'll wish it were bigger in no time.

[RP]

I have to say thinking ahead is the best thing such as other have said to add protection. I was at a shop mechanic shop where a friend of mine was working and noticed the torch regulators were in his tool box. Not thinking much on why I asked him his answer was simple. I have a 10,000 tool box full of tools that cost a great deal of money which I can lock. I am not going to leave a torch sitting beside the box for them to cut it open. Which sometimes the stuff in plain site is missed.

[alamogunr]

When I first purchased my safe, I had to put it in the garage. To avoid having it stand out since my garage is visible from the street, I covered it with a sheet in such a way that it was not identifiable as a safe. When I moved into my small shop, I placed it in a back corner with very little room around it. Again, somewhat covered so it does not stand out. My reloading bench(practically immovable) is almost against it on the side and barely enough room to open the door in front. Granted, this will not deter anyone who is determined to steal, but will slow them down.

While I wish I lived on 100 acres, my wife does not want to be isolated so we have neighbors close by. Any suspect activity would be reported at once.

One recommendation on a safe: Do not be influenced by the advertising about "hidden hinges". Mine has the "hidden hinges" and these require space inside the safe to support a heavy door. No guns or anything else where that door support has to pivot. Takes one to two guns out of capacity. External hinges probably do a better job of supporting the door anyway.

[dragon813gt]

Fort Knox makes a residential security container. For a real safe you need to step into a TL rated safe. Sturdy, who makes a RSC, has an option to reenforce the sides. It's two sheets of 7 gauge welded together and installed on the sides. You can add it to the back as well. And there is torch resistant versions as well. As far as RSCs go Sturdy has a lot of options to beef your container up. The term safe is used for inappropriate containers. You want along the lines of a Brown, Amsec of Graffunder which build to suit. You might check into local companies that will build to suit as well.

[bob208]

a liberty. I have one. thieves tried to get into it broke off the tumbler. put a dent in the door and tripped the safety pin. it took about 4 hours fro the lock smith to open it reset the pin and replace the tumbler. but the thieves did not get to the 50 Winchesters in it.

[Ickisrulz]

Check Craigslist for local used commercial safes. As long as you can move it, you can often find a deal.

[salpal48]

You might want to look into a Bank Locker . I had one before I moved . I purchased it In the Safe District in NYC. It was used But it was !.25 steel all sides top and bottom.. 60"x 30"x60". weight was 3500 lb's . Mounted in my Garage floor. Like i said used . and very reasonable appox $ 1200.00 delivered and Dropped in place within 50 miles. Had to leave it when we moved.. Most safe CO. want to get rid of these. They have no use for people who store Currency, Diamonds or other small valuables. This had 2 Tumbler , , with sliding bolts, Keys and exterior Pad locks.

[dragon813gt]

Check Craigslist for local used commercial safes. As long as you can move it, you can often find a deal.

Yep. While checking mine there were 15 available and they ranged from $500 up to $1,900. 6' tall, 3' wide and weighing 2000#s is a big deterrent. You won't be cutting through them a/ anything less than a torch.

[Black Prince]

Many THANKS guys. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for and I am now seriously looking at the Sturdy Safe because as some of you mentioned, they will allow me to add options that will make the safe as strong as I need it to be. I'll take the safe I have now to a local welding shop and have them weld additional 3/8 inch steel plates to one side and the top because it will be jammed up against the new safe and will only need extra protection at those places. Both will be bolted to the concrete floor and the concrete back wall. I am looking at how I can disguise the safes also because as some of you have suggested, that seems like a good idea. I already have a good home security system with motion detectors and entry detection and I live in a gated community with our own armed and deputized security force who roam around unscheduled in unmarked SUV's just like a lot of people who live here do. I think I am doing all a reasonable and prudent man can do to try to keep things safe, but in today's world, you never know.