Win 32 sp Value

[Char-Gar]

A 30-30 vs. 32 WS debate is not a productive thing to do. With factory ammo or factory equivalent handloads there is not enough difference between the two to make change.

The 30-30 is a wonderful round with which I have had much experience and own four rifles in that caliber at this time. Due to it's long neck and smaller powder capacity it is one of the better cast bullet 30 caliber rounds around.

The standard barrel twist for the 30-30 by Winchester is 1-12 and Marlin chose to go with the faster 1-10. I also have a Browning SS (30-30) with a 1-12 twist.

With the rare exception as mentioned by Bruce both Marlin and Winchester use 1-16 twist barrels for the 32 WS round.

It is these differences in barrel twist that make a difference to the cast bullet shooter. You can push 1-10 twist barrels past 2,000 fps with accuracy, but everything has to be just right. Slow the twist down to 1-12 and full velocity cast bullets rounds becomes easier to obtain. Now slow the twist down to 1-16 and it is just plain easy to find full velocity loads. If there is an advantage (and I think there is) to the 32 WS this is it. This is a narrow advantage, not applicable to 99.99% of shooters and reloaders.

If top end casts bullet loads are not on the plate of the reloader, then one is as good as the other. The 30-30 does provide much more available cases, bullets and bullet molds and that is nothing to sneeze at in these days and time.

I certainly am not advocating that folks sell their 30-30s and hunt up 32 WSs, as my 30-30s are not going anywhere.

I do find the constant flow of misinformation about the 32 WS to be symptomatic of the human condition. After misinformation has been read a time or two, it becomes an established fact in many people's minds, and nothing will dislodge it from their grey matter. This is true in politics, religion and every other sector of human life. Critical thinking skills seem to be rather uncommon these days. Whole societies fall because people don't question the information being feed to them by folks with resumes, positions and titles.

[M-Tecs]

I do find the constant flow of misinformation about the 32 WS to be symptomatic of the human condition. After misinformation has been read a time or two, it becomes an established fact in many people's minds, and nothing will dislodge it from their grey matter. This is true in politics, religion and every other sector of human life. Critical thinking skills seem to be rather uncommon these days. Whole societies fall because people don't question the information being feed to them by folks with resumes, positions and titles.

Very well stated Sir !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kansas Ed]

About a year ago I was at the Tulsa Arms show looking for evil black rifles...since I normally look for Winchesters...this was a big change for me. Anyway I happened across a very very nice 1894 Oct. rifle in .32 Special and Takedown to boot....and cheap for condition. Well....the 32 went home with me and there were no black rifles in my car that day. I ended up buying a Lyman 323470....cast of 20:1 it's running about 180 grains. Using a flat faced nose punch gives you the flat point with this soft alloy, and man does that rifle love those boolits at 1900+ fps. Don't forget this mold if you have one available. I have a whole stable full of vintage leverguns...and believe it or not...not a single 30-30. Gotta get one, one of these days....they say they're all the rage.

Ed

[451whitworth]

Those with the RCBS 32-170-FN mould, what diameter do they drop at using wheel weights?

[TXGunNut]

Asking those with wisdom in the caliber... What are some good molds for 32 Winchester Special? What are some I should look out for and some that are still made now to snap up? I want to make sure I can shoot this rifle for a long time to come with a varity of good boolits to plink with and hunt with.

If you run across a Ranch Dog 323-180 (or 170) snatch it up. It's a TL boolit. NOE may be making a GG and or TL version of it.

[wmitty]

Mine measure .324" as cast using coww.

[TXGunNut]

If top end casts bullet loads are not on the plate of the reloader, then one is as good as the other. The 30-30 does provide much more available cases, bullets and bullet molds and that is nothing to sneeze at in these days and time.
-Char-Gar

That pretty much describes my shooting needs but the 32 WS is just more interesting and fun. I enjoy the disinformation and suspect much was started by 32 WS fans intent on collecting a few more examples from the misinformed.

[Ozarki]

OK now you went and did it. I've been dreaming about a win32sp for some time. Today at our local gun show a friend had one on the table. It had to come home with me. Shiny bore, good trigger, and smooth action. When I got home I rummaged through my stuff looking for brass. I found 10 pickup and one loaded SuperX. This week I read some history on this cartridge as being .318 instead of .321. Did a muzzle check and the bullet fell into the bore clear to the brass. The best I could tell just ahead of the brass it measures .312. I can surely understand why Win. could not sell them. I will pull that bullet and replace it with a boolet. Would love to post pictures, but this oldtimer has all he can do to turn the pc on.

[Nobade]

Those with the RCBS 32-170-FN mould, what diameter do they drop at using wheel weights?

Mine drops right at .321" on the body and .314" on the nose.

-Nobade

[jonp]

Yes indeed... a few years ago I found my M64, also in .32 Special and in near-mint condition, at the Scheels store in Reno. NVCurmudgeon and I met CobbMtnMac at the store, and they "persuaded" me to buy the rifle. When I mentioned mounting a receiver sight, Mac said, "Oh.... I just happen to have a Redfield sight for it..... OUT IN THE CAR." (he was visiting from Sacramento)!

Danged enablers.... my two "pals" (and the salesman) took a vote and decided I should buy it. Some of us are too easily tempted.

I took the M64 home, and in less than a week fired over 600 rounds of experimental cast-bullet rounds through it. That was likely more than it had been fired in the preceding sixty years! And, I too am using the RCBS 32-170 mould. It works very well.

Thats a great story. What would we do without friends

[jrmartin1964]

I have been reading that same crock of nonsense off and on for 60 years. It is just one of those myths/old wives tales that somebody puts in print and somebody else repeats it and so on and so on. Even gun writers and load book editors who should know better are not exempt from this kind of stuff. Folks without experience read it and will swear it is true because so and so said it or they read it in such and such, when it fact it has never been true.

The 32 WS offers a smidge more power than the 30 WCF and some folks might think that is important. However any critter done in with one or the other won't know which one did the deed. As to a 32 caliber 1-16 twist barrel wearing out sooner than a 30 caliber 1-12 twist barrel that is just utter nonsense. Yet folks who don't know better, will swear it is true because they read it somewhere. This should not surprise anybody because there are folks who still think the earth is flat and man descended from monkeys.

The genesis of this notion seems to come front another myth about the 32WS which is it was designed for folks to shoot black powder if they wanted and the rifling was shallow to keep the barrel shooting when fouled with black powder. Therefore the shallow rifling would wear out quickly and bullets would rattle down the barrel. Neither of these assertions which comprise the foundation of the aforementioned myth are true.

Winchester designed the 32 WS to shoe horn some more power into the 94 platform. The buyer would have to step up to the 95 to get more power and many did not want to do that because the 95 cost more and was heavier to tote in the woods. In short Winchester though they could sell more rifles with the 32 WS added to the 94 lineup.

Whatever was the reasoning of Winchester, for us cast bullet levergun loonies, latching on to a good 32 WS is like finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

The 30 WCF was always going to be the favorite because it was a 30 caliber. The US military first adopted the 30 Army (30-40), then the 30-06, the 30 Carbine and the 7.62. This love affair between the military and the 30 caliber was guaranteed sales to civilians of 30 caliber rifles.

Here is a link to a good article about the round written by Mic McPherson. I consider this to be definitive.

http://www.levergun.com/articles/special.htm

It is not my intention to hijack this thread, but since the subject has been brought up regarding the .32 Winchester Special and Black Powder I thought it appropriate to bring some apparently unknown information to the table. The attached page comes from Winchester's Catalog No.68, dated January 1902. This catalogue marked the first appearance of the .32 Special, and clearly states it was developed to be reloaded with black powder. This same explanation was continued through five more editions of Winchester's catalogues, making its final appearance in Winchester's Catalogue No.73, dated January 1907. Beginning with Catalogue No.74, dated March 1908, reference to reloading with black powder disappeared.

[Char-Gar]

It is not my intention to hijack this thread, but since the subject has been brought up regarding the .32 Winchester Special and Black Powder I thought it appropriate to bring some apparently unknown information to the table. The attached page comes from Winchester's Catalog No.68, dated January 1902. This catalogue marked the first appearance of the .32 Special, and clearly states it was developed to be reloaded with black powder. This same explanation was continued through five more editions of Winchester's catalogues, making its final appearance in Winchester's Catalogue No.73, dated January 1907. Beginning with Catalogue No.74, dated March 1908, reference to reloading with black powder disappeared.

Thanks, that is a valuable contribution to the knowledge base on this subject. I am going to have to back track on my thinking on this subject. It would appear I was wrong. That is hard to admit, but it does happen from time to time. Having those catalogs are valuable resource. There is no way I am going to hang on to my erroneous thinking in the face of proof like that. Thanks again.

[merlin101]

After reading all this I just wanted to say thanks to all you guys! I now am on the hunt for a .32WS, I'm sure my wife will want to thank you too!

[jonp]

It is not my intention to hijack this thread, but since the subject has been brought up regarding the .32 Winchester Special and Black Powder I thought it appropriate to bring some apparently unknown information to the table. The attached page comes from Winchester's Catalog No.68, dated January 1902. This catalogue marked the first appearance of the .32 Special, and clearly states it was developed to be reloaded with black powder. This same explanation was continued through five more editions of Winchester's catalogues, making its final appearance in Winchester's Catalogue No.73, dated January 1907. Beginning with Catalogue No.74, dated March 1908, reference to reloading with black powder disappeared.

I will take a hijack with such information anytime although I would not say that "it was developed for use with black powder rather it was developed for use with both smokeless and black powder. Since smokeless data is given first it seems to me that that was the primary thinking of its use and the black powder an acknowledgement of the prevalence of BP still in use. As BP waned in popularity it was finally dropped in 1908. Thanks for posting it

[Char-Gar]

I will take a hijack with such information anytime although I would not say that "it was developed for use with black powder rather it was developed for use with both smokeless and black powder. Since smokeless data is given first it seems to me that that was the primary thinking of its use and the black powder an acknowledgement of the prevalence of BP still in use. As BP waned in popularity it was finally dropped in 1908. Thanks for posting it

A "dual fuel" round.

[jonp]

I found a 94 for about $500. Not pristine but a shooter with good wood and surface rust on the barrel. I might pick it up.

[TXGunNut]

That ad copy surprised me as well. I've heard the story about BP in the 32WS but it never made sense to me so I categorized it as a myth.

[corvette8n]

I have the Ranch Dog mold in .32WS, so far I have only shot plinking rounds with my pre-64 Winchester, 8-10gr of Unique, but is sure is fun. I also use that bullet in my 8mm Mauser with the same 8-10gr load.