Kel Tec Sub 2000 - 9mm

[John Allen]

I am really debating picking one of these up in 9mm. What do you guys think of these for a plinker. I was looking at the 9mm just for the convenience of other items I load rather than add another caliber aka the 40sw.

[19112TAP]

I've had one for a few years now with the Glock mag option and really like it. I like the fact that I can have a rifle and pistol in same caliber and will use the same magazine. I use mine in me BOB bag. It's a lot of fun to shoot steel plate with. Good luck.

[GARD72977]

Hey John you need one of these! I have a double diamond ar lower for the glock mags but everything keeps bumping the build down the list. I am thinking of getting one of these also. Looks like a a lot fun. One thing that I hear about them is that they are very light. I don't see this as being a problem with this type of gun. The trigger seems to be a concern also. Not much that can be done to improve it. I would say that for the money them seem like a good deal. I have been looking at the gun shows and the price has come down but I think it will fall a little more.

[John Allen]

1991 thanks I was thinking it would be a fun screw around gun. How is the trigger. I know it will be heavy but is it usuable?

[John Allen]

Hey John you need one of these! I have a double diamond ar lower for the glock mags but everything keeps bumping the build down the list. I am thinking of getting one of these also. Looks like a a lot fun. One thing that I hear about them is that they are very light. I don't see this as being a problem with this type of gun. The trigger seems to be a concern also. Not much that can be done to improve it. I would say that for the money them seem like a good deal. I have been looking at the gun shows and the price has come down but I think it will fall a little more.

Larry, I was thinking the AR also but these are so cool that I keep coming back to them.

[garym1a2]

Look at the Beratta CX4 storm. Its a lead cast eating machine. Accurate, reliable and well made. Plus you can get the version that takes their M92 mags and get 30 rounders for a decent price.
I would not pay the current $500 Keltec price when the CX4 can be gotten for a few hundred more.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Stop Debating and get one if you can. Do get the Glock Version as there are others for different mag types. These guns have many uses and when you start shooting you will start to see of what use the gun can be to you.

The fact that they fold into a very small package that will fit into a regular 3 day back pack, and can be toted in you car as a bug out gun or? at 4 lbs. they are very handy and is kind of why they exist.

Mine is a .40 S&W Glock model because I have a G35 as a sidearm. Pairing the gun with a sidearm is what it is all about, but it increases your sphere of control from 25 yard radius to 100 yard radius.

You could do worse in a SHTF situation. and with 3-4, 33 round mags with the gun you'd be well armed.

This is one of those times when you need to trust your gut and buy one as soon as you can find one.

For a source I recommend B&H Gunrack in Florida as they are 8 miles from the Kel-Tec Factory and get first dibs on pretty much everything that KT makes. They are on the internet Google "B&H Gunrack."

I got mine just before last Xmas in the wake of Sandy Hook, and it took two weeks for them to get one for me. It was $300 + 35 shipping to My FFL here in CA.

If you are looking at an AR style Pistol caliber carbine there are currently three guns available and two are not all that. AR conversions tend to have questionable reliability, and use Uzi mags as opposed to pistol mags which are easily obtainable.

JR Carbine, and Thureon Defense, are the two weak ones, and by weak, I mean the designs need refinement as they are clunky guns that are way too heavy for what they do. A 8-9lb carbine is not what we are looking for.

Then there is this one which is really nicely made. http://tnwfirearms.com/complete-guns...val-rifle.html

I handled all these guns at SHOT and that is what I base my opinions on. Also all three are available in 9MM .40 S&W and .45 ACP. I think one or the other is also available in 10MM. Most have switch barrel options as well.

Anyway you need a S2K so just get one and join the crowd.

Randy

[John Allen]

Randy, thanks for the opinion. I was looking at the keltec because of the folding feature and the glock mags. I am going to have to grab one.

[John Allen]

Look at the Beratta CX4 storm. Its a lead cast eating machine. Accurate, reliable and well made. Plus you can get the version that takes their M92 mags and get 30 rounders for a decent price.
I would not pay the current $500 Keltec price when the CX4 can be gotten for a few hundred more.

Gary, I thought about this also but I want something to go with my glock mags that was the reason behind the keltec. I still have not seen one of the Beratta CX4 storm in person but am considering it.

[biggc1]

I just picked up a used one and installed some different sights from tandem Kross. It's the beretta mag version but haven't got to shoot it much yet or tune the new sights. Doesn't seem very comfortable to shoot though cramming your face against the bolt tube. .

[Digger]

Just obtained one myself in Glock 40 and have had it out once ..... fun !!
I was fortunate this particular gun already had the Red Lion front sight installed , I have installed the "pad" for the bolt tube from "Tacticool" comp.
Made a big difference placing my cheek against that stock metal tube ...did I say COLD ! tube ?
Just got in the mail today the stock extension from Keltec ... puts it out there just a little more comfortable in the arms ..
Tried out the Tandemkross open sight .. but my old eyes made it awful blurry to center the front so I just now put the original peep sight back on , but drilled it out slightly larger so will see how it works .
For me with being already set up for the forty cal , this little gun is more accurate than I thought it would be but I might be speaking to soon yet .
We will see as I am using one of Mihec's molds that drops a hp at 153 gr. and am looking forward to making this work.

[Bullwolf]

Look at the Beratta CX4 storm. Its a lead cast eating machine. Accurate, reliable and well made. Plus you can get the version that takes their M92 mags and get 30 rounders for a decent price.
I would not pay the current $500 Keltec price when the CX4 can be gotten for a few hundred more.

Didn't mean to single you out Gary, but I decided to reply to you because of the Beretta 92 magazine comment. My experience was a bit different regarding the Kel-Tec vs the Beretta CX4 Storm.

I purchased a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 9mm in the Beretta 92 magazine configuration.
(uses 92 mags)
For me it was a toss up at the time between the Kel-Tec, and the CX4 Storm. The Sub 2000's can also show up rarely in 3rd generation S&W magazine configuration like the old Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine, however the Glock mag configured Sub 2000's seem to be the most common and popular.

I paid somewhere over $399 for my Kel-Tec Sub 2000, and no it's not for sale. The 92 mag configuration would be of little use to the OP who was looking for something with Glock magazine functionality as later mentioned, but it was exactly what I was looking for as a companion for a Beretta 92FS.

My 9mm Kel-Tec Sub 2000 was substantially less expensive than a Beretta CX4 Storm was when I was looking to purchase one. The CX4's in stores were around $900+ and walk out the door prices were easily over 1k. The CX4's were much more expensive than what I had seen on auction sites. Surprisingly I saw many of the Beretta CX4 carbines available in NV. Comparatively there were very few of the Kel-Tec's available. Everyplace I went had either already sold out, were expecting more at some later date, only had one in the wrong caliber, or in the Glock magazine configuration. I eventually got lucky and stumbled across a Kel-Tec in the Beretta magazine configuration at a good price. I quickly bought it, and didn't look back... much

Lately the Sub 2000's have gotten really hard to find. They have also really shot up in price as well, particularly on the auction sites. I doubt I could easily find another Kel-Tec now at twice the price, but I still think it would be worth it, and would buy another one again even at double the price.

After handling it I just could not warm up to the Beretta CX4 plastic carbine. It felt and looked too much like a child's Super Soaker squirt gun to me. I know folks who have them love em, but it wasn't the carbine for me.

The Kel-Tec is one of the only plastic guns that I own, and I freely admit the novelty compact fold up aspect of it completely sold me on the gun. Mine fits easily in a backpack or even a laptop case, and is a whole lot of fun. It's a unique design that's surprisingly portable, and is easy to handle and shoot. So far everyone who has had any trigger time with the Sub 2000 has enjoyed it. My Sub 2000 is cast boolit friendly, and has been surprisingly accurate. It turned out to be a decent companion for my 92 and all of it's magazines.

Coming from someone who doesn't like plastic guns in general this odd duck has really won me over, even if it is somewhat homely.






- Bullwolf

[biggc1]

Bullwolf what have you found that yours likes for cast? My was actually the S&W mag configuration but i switched it to beretta 92. The Sig, S&W, and beretta can all be switched around to any of the other for a $2 mag catch from kel-tec.

[GARD72977]

Larry, I was thinking the AR also but these are so cool that I keep coming back to them.

I am thinking just like you. I have bought the upper and lower for the AR but I don't have the extra money for the build. Im doing a 7.5" SBR with a can and Meprolight sight with a high end flash light and laser. The money just keeps adding up!!! I put that off until next year and Im going to buy a Sub 2000 pretty soon.

Here is a pic of the receivers. The lower is a double diamond and the upper is a YMH. I laid black paper over the serial numbers. The lower is billet and the mag well has a good bevel. The trigger guard all machined and one piece. Look a the magwell. It fits the glock mag without a block. Some people don't like how it slants back. I really don't care. I want it to use glock magazines.

If you decide to build a AR this lower makes a really clean gun.

[Treeman]

The Sub 2000 is fun and the folding feature is super cool.....but the sights are barely tall enough for some face shapes and it will beat up one's cheek with lots of shooting. The Beretta is more fun to shoot but more costly.

[garym1a2]

I have never shot the Keltec, so no negative comments on it except you can't find them. The CX4 is priced kinda high for what you get, mine was $800 plus tax. But the CX4 is a nice shooter and very handy. Once you get used to the lousy plastic trigger its a shooter. I would rather it take Glock mags as I have tons of them, But 92 mags are not that bad. I got 4 of the 30 rounders(Beratta) from Midway on sale for $24 each two months ago.
One thing I hope people understand is both of them plus the Hipoint are blowback operation. This means more recoil than it should be.

[Bullwolf]

The Sub 2000 is fun and the folding feature is super cool.....but the sights are barely tall enough for some face shapes and it will beat up one's cheek with lots of shooting. The Beretta is more fun to shoot but more costly.

I didn't like to put my cheek right on the cold or hot metal tube (weather depending) I cringed every time I made a cheek weld... So I got one of those rubber bolt tube covers. It's small and stupid cosmetic upgrade but I figured it was worth it to me.



Even though it is a blow back design, its larger than most any 9mm pistol. Comparatively felt recoil isn't much with the 9mm carbine at all. It reminded me of letting the kids shoot the old Marlin Camp 9mm. There is an aftermarket Sub 2000 buffer cylinder available if you want to reduce it more.



You can add a shock buffer if you really want, and it will reduce the felt of recoil even more. The downside of using the recoil buffer is you can no longer lock the bolt all the way back when you have it installed. Personally the 9mm Recoil is hardly noticeable to me, but maybe the 40S&W version is worse.

Here's a link to a company that sells a buffer cylinder, and a rubber bolt tube cover.

http://tacticoolproducts.com/

They also make a whole slew of aftermarket sights, rails, and such if you are the kind of person who is into really modding out your Sub 2000. Some even put AR series sights on them. I think Red Lion is one of the better metal sight and metal trigger aftermarket companies if you want to go this route with your Sub 2k.

Front Sight
http://www.redlionprecision.com/Prod...ProductCode=R7

Hard Anodized Aluminum Trigger
http://www.redlionprecision.com/Prod...ProductCode=R2

And great write up on the Kel-Tec Sub-2000's
http://www.southernoutdoorlife.com/m...00/sub2000.htm

Bullwolf what have you found that yours likes for cast? My was actually the S&W mag configuration but i switched it to beretta 92. The Sig, S&W, and beretta can all be switched around to any of the other for a $2 mag catch from kel-tec.

I don't think I have seen the Sig configuration, but I have seen the others. I had read somewhere that you could swap them around if you had a metal magazine one, but I was not aware that kel-tec would sell you the mag catch. Good to know!

Ive been using my easy TL 9mm cast load. A Lee TL356-124-2R sized at .358, and tumbled lubed in LLA, or lately 45-45-10. Using Winchester 9mm brass, a CCI 500 small pistol primer, and 5.2 grains of Hercules/Alliant's Unique. I use a loaded overall cartridge length of 1.10.

(Please work up to this load, it's safe in my guns but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be safe in yours)



This load always worked well with my Beretta 92FS, and functions fine in my Sub2000.



- Bullwolf

[John Allen]

These suckers are just too cool. I have to start looking for one.