Does it matter???

[K-Rod]

Hello All. I bought a Lyman 429667 4 banger from Midway that is dropping bullets at .426 and .427. I called Lyman to see about sending it back for a different one & the first question asked was "What Alloy are you using? Are you using the Lyman #2 Alloy?". Lyman wants me to send it to them with a few sample bullets.

Before I do that I thought I'd ask, does Alloy really matter on what size the bullets drop at? I know different Alloy's change weight but can it also be the reason for a .004" undersized bullet? My Alloy is a 50/50 COWW & Pure with a touch of Tin. I have been dropping them in water out of the mold & thought that might be the cause but the bullets are the same if I air cool them.

Thanks

[375RUGER]

Well, yes. Look at all the custom mould makers websites. They specifically want to know what alloy you intend to cast so they can cut it to drop within the tolerance they have given.
The horse has been beaten about Lyman's and their as cast diameter with anything but #2.

[62chevy]

Good question, someone should be along to give us an answer.

Ops got beaten to the punch. LOL

[sqlbullet]

Alloy does matter, and it matters a good bit as has been said.

But, mold temp matters too. A hot mold drops smaller bullets. If you are used to an aluminum mold that requires a fast cadence to keep warm, you may need to adjust things with a steel mold. It will heat more slowly, but will hold heat better. A fast cadence can result in a too hot mold, and shrunken bullet syndrome. If you pot is too hot, it will heat the mold faster.

So, what temp is your pot and how are you monitoring mold temp?

[K-Rod]

Could you reference these "Horse Beatings" because I spent more time then I care to searching threads hoping to find something about it. Sorry if my question wastes peoples time. You can always hit the back button.

[K-Rod]

Alloy does matter, and it matters a good bit as has been said.

But, mold temp matters too. A hot mold drops smaller bullets. If you are used to an aluminum mold that requires a fast cadence to keep warm, you may need to adjust things with a steel mold. It will heat more slowly, but will hold heat better. A fast cadence can result in a too hot mold, and shrunken bullet syndrome. If you pot is too hot, it will heat the mold faster.

So, what temp is your pot and how are you monitoring mold temp?

Thank you Sir. This is what I was looking for. Pot temp is right at 750 degrees. Mold temp is hot but its dropping nice shinny bullets. They don't have that "Crystal" look to them. Running fast & steady. Sounds like I need to slow the pace down a bit

[lwknight]

Nice shiny bullets means that your mold is not too hot. A touch of tin does not tell me anything.
Lead shrinks as it cools. Antimony in the mix acts like freezing water , expanding as it hardens. This will offset the shrinkage of the lead to a point. The number 2 alloy has 5% antimony both for hardness and larger castings.
The 5% tin makes tough castings that fill the mold better than a touch of tin.

You might have poor fill out and/or shrinking bullets. Even more popular among commercial casters is the 2-6-92 tin-antimony-lead alloy. While not as tough as number 2 it is equally hard and shrinks even less.

Till you try one of these alloys , you cannot be sure that the mold is not what is advertised to be. A good many other brand molds will cast .429-430 with half wheel weight mixed and even larger with #2.

[jsizemore]

I cast most of mine with iron molds. I try to keep alloy (50/50 with 2% added pewter/tin) at 650F and a fairly slow pace as compared to most. I usually let the sprue freeze and wait 20 seconds to cut the sprue and drop the boolits to air cool. That's for a 200gr boolit. My 148gr take only 15 seconds. Cut and not torn sprue plus no lead smear on top of the mold blocks or bottom of sprue plate dictates time from sprue freeze to cut and dump. I also cut the sprues by hand and use a clock to time. It's how I found to make my iron molds cast as large as possible with a softer alloy.

[geargnasher]

Reference the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd ed for a complete table. I'd tell you the difference between near pure with a touch of tin and #2 alloy but I don't have the book handy. I'll check it out tonight when I get home. From memory, on a .44 boolit you shouldn't see more than one to two thousandths total increase in cast size between pure and #2. In short, I think you have what is (unfortunately) typical undersized modern Lyman mould. There has been a distinct trend of complaints about this since about 2007 and the "use #2 alloy" is the standby excuse considering their moulds usually made a thousandth or two over with wheel weights since the dawn of wheel weights. Sometimes it's a combination of poor casting technique/temperatures and alloy that is making them cast small, sometimes they're just too freaking small. I've had an even dozen Lyman moulds since 2007 that all cast undersized or weren't machined to full depth so the boolits were elliptical.

I would expect your alloy, in a proper mould, should AT LEAST make .428" according to their rules provided you don't run the mould too hot or alloy too cool. I hope you have better luck getting satisfaction out of Lyman than I have.

Gear

[375RUGER]

Could you reference these "Horse Beatings" because I spent more time then I care to searching threads hoping to find something about it. Sorry if my question wastes peoples time. You can always hit the back button.

No problem, the site specific google search works better.
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=0019512...man&gsc.page=1

[K-Rod]

Thanks Ruger. Thats perfect!! I knew if I played stupid long enough, someone would do the work for me!!

[375RUGER]

Here is another search result that you will likely find useful to the question at hand
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=0019512...ize&gsc.page=1
.
and here is the direct link to the custom search
https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=0...69:ggn3vg-bjum
.

[waksupi]

If it wasn't for beating dead horses, some of these guys would never get any exercise!

[K-Rod]

If it wasn't for beating dead horses, some of these guys would never get any exercise!

Hahahahahahaha!!!!

[mikeym1a]

In "the paper jacket" Paul Matthews makes note of molds. He asks that his be cut to cast a specific size in pure lead. He knows that the alloys 'grow' a bit, and can get a bit larger boolit with the alloys, if needed. You might, for grins and chuckles, cast a few out of pure lead, and then some out of alloy, and measure the difference. Most of my Lee molds cast a tad over the stated size. Also, my Lyman #3 manual says to mix 10lbs of WW, 1/2lb lead, 1/2lb tin to get #2 equivalent. Hope this helps a bit.

[jsizemore]

I would expect your alloy, in a proper mould, should AT LEAST make .428" according to their rules provided you don't run the mould too hot or alloy too cool. I hope you have better luck getting satisfaction out of Lyman than I have.

Gear

Does this mean if the alloy is the same, a higher temperature will produce a larger boolit?

[Garyshome]

I keep some sizing dies around just in case my alloy different.

[geargnasher]

Does this mean if the alloy is the same, a higher temperature will produce a larger boolit?

It depends. Most moulds cast their boolits the largest when they are dropping boolits just past the wrinkled stage. Most alloys cast the largest when run about 150F above their full-liquidus point.

From the Lyman #3: .44 caliber predicted as-cast diameter: Pure lead, .4296". Wheel weights (assume clippy weights only?), .4303". #2 alloy, .431". Linotype, .4314".

Mention those numbers when you call Lyman and tell them you largest boolits, cast with something between wheel weights and pure, drop .427".

Gear

[geargnasher]

I keep some sizing dies around just in case my alloy different.

Assuming of course your moulds cast at least nominal size in the first place.

Gear

[sqlbullet]

Already said, but shiny bulllets mean you mold isn't too hot. Sounds to me like you might have a legit complaint.